Exhaust Muffler Talk....

[98c43amg]

Has anyone used, or know someone that's used the Flowmaster Hushpower II mufflers? Do they like it? Any backpressure measurements?

I'm thinking of a setup such as this on a 5.4L V8 engine:

a) headers (?)
b) X-pipe or H-pipe
c) hi-perf cats (2 or 4 ?)
d) 2 Mufflers or one single 2-chamber muffler -- Magnaflow or Flowmaster (?) -- in place of where the resonators are. (hoping from there to the outlet is under 6', as I read over 6' might need a resonator)
e) dual pipes from there to the tail-pipe.

- thinking would do dual 2.5" pipes all the way front to back. However one 3.5" pipe is also an option. I'd read a posting once that someone was recommended doing one 3" pipe by a DTM driver on the 1st-gen CLK55. But from muffler manufacturers, they say use a 3.5" pipe or 2x2.5" for my engine size and power.

(3" area = 7.06 sq.in.)
(3.5" area = 9.6 sq.in.)
(dual 2.5" area = 4.9 sq.in. X 2 = 9.8 sq.in)

- thinking headers. I read speedybenz's posting from a few years back on the importance of some back pressure the first 5 or so feet of the exhaust system, so I'm hoping using headers doesn't work against me. Thoughts?

- probably will do 4 2.5" cats like now to pass inspection, but hi perf cats. (?) Or can do two 3.5" cats (do they exist?). I don't know if it's necessary or if the 2nd set will be effective, as I don't how the stock 1st set is different then the 2nd set, and it can achieve efficiency (enough heat) in the 2nd set of hi-flow / hi-perf cats. Thoughts?

- Muffler: Magnaflow's got their Universal line, XL line ; Flowmaster's got their 30 thru 80 series line, and Hushpower II line.

I'm leaning towards the Hushpower II as it's a deep but soft/muted sound (you can hear the sounds on their website). I would be using two of them where the C43 has the resonators located. Hoping from there to the tailpipe is under 6', as they state over might need a resonator.
Thoughts on the Hushpower II mufflers vs. others?

Does anyone have any experience with the Hushpower II regarding performance / back-pressure? I'm looking for a lot easier flow then the stock C43 cats + resonator + single muffler, but don't want that at the expense of greatly increased exhaust sound.

In hindsight, I should have blew into an exhaust pipe (covering the other inlet) when my engine bay was empty during the swap to see "what I got now".

Thanx for your thoughts,
Steve

[98c43amg]

Just read about these guys on Popular Hotrodding. Great looking stuff.

http://www.burnsstainless.com/index.htm

good articles:

http://www.burnsstainless.com/TechArticles/techarticles.html

[98c43amg]

almost a 100 reads and not one comment? :confused: man, what a disappointment.
I'm going to have to delete this thread out of pity for myself. :D

[JonC43]

I have flowmasters on my Mustang, but I hear real good things about the Magnaflows.

Back when I was doing alot of my work on the car, I was lead away from headers because it is hard to find a pair that won't begin leaking after a while.

I also am using an H-pipe to even out the flow.

I don't have to have cats! :)

I have two seperate mufflers for each pipe to provide sufficient backpressure.

I think I would go the same route on the benz if need be.

/sorry if this doesn't help

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by JonC43
I have flowmasters on my Mustang, but I hear real good things about the Magnaflows.
[snip]
/sorry if this doesn't help
No, it certainly does help. Thanx. One problem I had with the Magnaflows (the ones that are dual in & out in one casing) is the loudness of them. I took a ride in someone's C43 that has them and it was louder then I'd like to live with ; much much louder then I know my wife will be willing to live with.

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by 98c43amg
No, it certainly does help. Thanx. One problem I had with the Magnaflows (the ones that are dual in & out in one casing) is the loudness of them. I took a ride in someone's C43 that has them and it was louder then I'd like to live with ; much much louder then I know my wife will be willing to live with. Steve I think the Flow masters are just too damn loud.Same goes for magnaflow.I'm keeping my muffler AMG.After all it's made by Sebring.

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by coolcarlskic43
Steve I think the Flow masters are just too damn loud.Same goes for magnaflow.I'm keeping my muffler AMG.After all it's made by Sebring.

Thanx ... you ever hear the Hushpower II tho? I wonder where I could go to hear it...

BTW, you ever see this? Click here and scroll down to the cut open muffler. (http://mercedes-amg-class.com/members_details.php?safeid=31) Is this what the inside of our mufflers looks like or did he mod his to be this "wide-open" design?

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by 98c43amg
Thanx ... you ever hear the Hushpower II tho? I wonder where I could go to hear it...

BTW, you ever see this? Click here and scroll down to the cut open muffler. (http://mercedes-amg-class.com/members_details.php?safeid=31) Is this what the inside of our mufflers looks like or did he mod his to be this "wide-open" design? He took the sound insulation out and I believe that is exactly what our mufflers look like inside.That's why they are so efficient.

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by coolcarlskic43
He took the sound insulation out and I believe that is exactly what our mufflers look like inside.That's why they are so efficient. ...if the only the pipes were bigger...

[98c43amg]

But remember ... W210 E55s and even the 1st Gen CLK 55 uses two of those mufflers.

Consider this. Basically all aspects of a car is engineered to work in concert with one another, in their operating range. With that said, my C43 exhaust was designed to flow air/exhaust pumping of a 4.3L engine. By driving a 5.4L engine through it, I've basically increased the flow expected to go through it by about 25%.

So what that means basically, when the 5.4L is at about 4675rpm, the flow through the exhaust system is basically what the 4.3L motor was @ redline. From 4675rpm up to redline of the 5.4L motor now, the 5.4L motor is trying to pump more spent air/exhaust through it then it was designed for ... 25% more. I firmly believe I should be @ at least 250 ft-lb @ redline, not about 225ft-lb, and that's becuase of the exhaust restriction IMO.

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by 98c43amg
But remember ... W210 E55s and even the 1st Gen CLK 55 uses two of those mufflers.

Consider this. Basically all aspects of a car is engineered to work in concert with one another, in their operating range. With that said, my C43 exhaust was designed to flow air/exhaust pumping of a 4.3L engine. By driving a 5.4L engine through it, I've basically increased the flow expected to go through it by about 25%.

So what that means basically, when the 5.4L is at about 4675rpm, the flow through the exhaust system is basically what the 4.3L motor was @ redline. From 4675rpm up to redline of the 5.4L motor now, the 5.4L motor is trying to pump more spent air/exhaust through it then it was designed for ... 25% more. I firmly believe I should be @ at least 250 ft-lb @ redline, not about 225ft-lb, and that's becuase of the exhaust restriction IMO. Your very first statement about the first gen W210 E55 and Clk 55 using two muffler's is incorrect Steve. I understand your theory but with the C43 exhaust it does not apply.

It is the exact same muffler(part#) and pipe diameter for All the CLK55 2001-2002 5.4L AMG and E55 5.4L 99-2002 cars and the 98-2k C43 4.3L. Plus if that were tru then your dyno would not show your car making the exact same hp and TQ as a 99-2003 E55 and CLK55.And the Exhaust pipe diameter on the C43 is bigger than the pipes on the CLK430 and E430. The muffler on the CLK430 is different than the muffler on the CLK55 and C43. The CLK 55 is in fact making less HP than your car 2001-2002.I never chkd 2003-2005. www.amgcenter.com I think your improvements will only come from putting on headers.Try a bigger diameter exh pipe but I think you are going to badly kill the TQ all around IMOP. Only one way to find out and that's by dynoing the car of course. And you keep forgetting it's not a high rpm multivalve TQ motor.What your car does sounds perfectly normal to me.Go look at other dyno's posted on mbworld.This motor is not a BMW 5.0L multivalve motor which makes TQ and alot of hp at high rpm's.That was not MB's intent with these M113 motors. If you want higher RPM power then go cams,valve springs,headers and you'll get what you want.I'm sure.;) My car falls off as well and I find this absolutely normal.

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by coolcarlskic43
Your very first statement about the first gen W210 E55 and Clk 55 using two muffler's is incorrect Steve. I understand your theory but with the C43 exhaust it does not apply.
?:confused: I was sure they used a muffler on the passenger side as well....? I'm 100% sure the E55 is dual exhaust ... I was pretty sure the CLK55 was too. I didn't think it all went through one muffler and Y'ed to come out both sides. ...I'm going to have to double check that. ...so E55s are down to 225ft-lb of torque @ redline too? ugh! ;)
Thanx for your patience with me,
Steve :D

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by 98c43amg
?:confused: I was sure they used a muffler on the passenger side as well....? I'm 100% sure the E55 is dual exhaust ... I was pretty sure the CLK55 was too. I didn't think it all went through one muffler and Y'ed to come out both sides. ...I'm going to have to double check that. ...so E55s are down to 225ft-lb of torque @ redline too? ugh! ;)
Thanx for your patience with me,
Steve :D Nah Bro and you can ask Jeffrey.The E55 did not come out with dual mufflers like the S55 ,CL55,SL55,ML 55, all N/A until 2003 when it(E55) was supercharged.CLK55 and CLK500 never came out with dual pipes in the rear until either 2004 or 2005. Bro I know these cars like the back of my hand!!!!

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by coolcarlskic43
Nah Bro and you can ask Jeffrey.The E55 did not come out with dual mufflers like the S55 ,CL55,SL55,ML 55, all N/A until 2003 when it(E55) was supercharged.CLK55 and CLK500 never came out with dual pipes in the rear until either 2004 or 2005. Bro I know these cars like the back of my hand!!!!

OK, I'll stop. :D Sorry. Thanx for not ripping me a new one. :p

I just can't believe how sure I was that at least the W210 E55 had true dual exhaust. Here's what I needed to see.

http://www.benzworld.org/gallery/pics/JohnJ5015009PM.jpg

I should have went and looked for it sooner.

So I guess the car's getting close to its potential then. I really sux how soon the power curve peaks in that case.

I once read a good analysis on Torque and Power. Though the rate of acceleration of a car is a 1:1 relationship with the torque curve of the car ... "Any other rpm (other than the power peak) at a given car speed will net you a lower torque value at the drive wheels. This would be true of any car on the planet, so, theoretical "best" top speed will always occur when a given vehicle is operating at its power peak." I'm thinking I wish my car shifted before redline now...
[Read the whole article here. (http://www.vettenet.org/torquehp.html)] After reading that article, I finally understood the differentce between torque and power and the importance of each.

[98c43amg]

BTW, Here's the "ideal" engine dyno graph from AMG for today's 5.4L motors: Technical Data C55 AMG (http://www3.mercedes-benz.com/omb/amg/en/cars/series/c55/tech_data_06.htm) (I wonder if they have the stock exhaust on when they measure it?)
...which says today's NA 55's puts out about 400nm (295 ft-lb) at our redline of 6250. Considering 20% drivetrain loss that yeilds about 236ft-lb... well, I'd still like to get those 10 or so ft-lbs if I can get it. :) ...does today's C55 have dual exhaust?

(p.s. it looks like MB raised the new redline to 6700[!] as seen on the Engine Specs page -- that says a lot to why they're hella fast)

[omeyhomey]

I have Magnaflow 18" muffler with dual Aero Turbine resonators (all 100% free flowing and in the cat back section). They are on my 3.2L M104 on my 300SE and it sounds awesome, not too loud at all at WOT with nice smooth deep V8 sounding idle hum. Power gain was definitely noticable and the most gains were actually during daily driving believe it or not. i have a wall of torque at 2000lb which makes getting around town a breeze in the 6-banger pushing nearly 4500lbs (W140 S-class).

[c55m8o]

kewl... thanx for the reply and details (98c43amg is my old handle). I'd still like to do something. I haven't touched it yet.

[Ashkan's C280]

is there anyway to rise the rev limit on your car? and which one of you c55's had the exhust setup, well I know it was not you, and I don't think it was knvs what did that system include?