Why do a C55 for so much yet so little in return?

[albanianbenz]

I was just wondering why people are swapping in the e55 motor into their c43? Obviously for performance but you can exceed those numbers w/ either a custom turbo or one of the superchargers made for c43. And cost would most likely be a lot less.
Maybe I am missing something or dont have the right numbers, please inform me if I am mistaken.

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by albanianbenz
I was just wondering why people are swapping in the e55 motor into their c43? Obviously for performance but you can exceed those numbers w/ either a custom turbo or one of the superchargers made for c43. And cost would most likely be a lot less.
Maybe I am missing something or dont have the right numbers, please inform me if I am mistaken.

...cus if I did a S/C to my 4.3L, that would have been it. Pretty much the end of the upgrade path.

I now have performance near what I would have had if I had S/C'ed the 4.3L ... BUT, I can go bigger and S/C the 5.4L later if I want even more.

edit: I just noticed ... so little in return?
:p
Go test drive a new CLK55 or C55. You can have that, but on the solid W202 platform, and make the car the way the AMG should have come from '98 - '00 if it wasn't that MB had to keep the C-class in the E-class's shadow (as my salesperson asserted to me), so had to give it a smaller motor.

[albanianbenz]

Originally posted by 98c43amg
...cus if I did a S/C to my 4.3L, that would have been it. Pretty much the end of the upgrade path.

I now have performance near what I would have had if I had S/C'ed the 4.3L ... BUT, I can go bigger and S/C the 5.4L later if I want even more.

I see what your saying but why would you just trade in the w202 for a w210. I know what you mean though plus its rare, very rare. So for the long run if you keep adding more performance then thats way to go but for short haul i would do S/C.

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by albanianbenz
I see what your saying but why would you just trade in the w202 for a w210. I know what you mean though plus its rare, very rare. So for the long run if you keep adding more performance then thats way to go but for short haul i would do S/C.

three reasons I didn't do that in '00 or '01.
1) No fold-down seats
2) dark wood interior
3) bigger heavier car.

Trust me ... I thought about it a =lot=. I even spent hours in the Mercedes dealership one day in Dusseldorf Germany when I went over to work there for a week dreaming about that Black Opal E55 Wagon in their showroom, thinking about whether I wanted to try to import it.

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by albanianbenz
I see what your saying but why would you just trade in the w202 for a w210. I know what you mean though plus its rare, very rare. So for the long run if you keep adding more performance then thats way to go but for short haul i would do S/C. Not S/C'ing until I get some more expendable income ... :p for now tho, I'm waiting for my speedybenz suspension. Having an LSD installed @ the same time. Will do the exhaust and some intake mods. I was just talking to the guy who did my swap for me today; I'm still thinking about a manual conversion done by the guy who did his turbo manifolds/hearders for him (have to talk to him tomorrow about custom headers). Though, I understand the new C55's trannis have fully manual mode in them. So if that tranni is plug & play, I may go that way.

[aintME]

Originally posted by albanianbenz
I see what your saying but why would you just trade in the w202 for a w210. I know what you mean though plus its rare, very rare. So for the long run if you keep adding more performance then thats way to go but for short haul i would do S/C.

this is what i did. i traded in my C36 for my W210 E55 (black opal). while i loved the E55, i missed the tossability of the W202. i missed it enough to buy my C43 when the opportunity arose.

if i kept my C43, i would have SC'd it first since it had relatively low miles. i then would have swapped in the 5.4L eventually. i believe the SC would have swapped right over to the 5.4L.

my brother has a clk55 which i get to drive when he needs to borrow a car. it gives me a pretty good idea about how the 5.4L would perform in a W202. the 5.4L is an awesome motor with much more power in reserve. there is a spot in the 5.4L that makes you go "OH SHIT" that the 4.3L lacks.

[98c43amg]

how true it is...

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by albanianbenz
I was just wondering why people are swapping in the e55 motor into their c43? Obviously for performance but you can exceed those numbers w/ either a custom turbo or one of the superchargers made for c43. And cost would most likely be a lot less.
Maybe I am missing something or dont have the right numbers, please inform me if I am mistaken. There's almost a "100" ft lb TQ difference between the 4.3L motor and the 5.4L motor.That is one of the BIG performance differences.You can't just look at the HP.Plus I can install the 5.4L motor and S/C and way surpass doing the same app to a 4.3L motor.
Originally posted by albanianbenz
I see what your saying but why would you just trade in the w202 for a w210. I know what you mean though plus its rare, very rare. So for the long run if you keep adding more performance then thats way to go but for short haul i would do S/C. An E55 W210 will never perform all around like a w202 with the 5.4L motor. Everybody needs to start getting on the swap wagon now because the newer cars are heavier and hella fast.

[98c43amg]

Re: so little in return ... [Click Me] (http://www.club202.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7257)
;) :D

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by coolcarlskic43
Everybody needs to start getting on the swap wagon now because the newer cars are heavier and hella fast. While looking at the C55 brochure online @ MBUSA.com I noticed coefficient of drag is 0.27 for the new C55 ... woa! That's slippery. Our is something like 0.31 or 0.33.
:(

[Renn 208]

Originally posted by 98c43amg
While looking at the C55 brochure online @ MBUSA.com I noticed coefficient of drag is 0.27 for the new C55 ... woa! That's slippery. Our is something like 0.31 or 0.33.
:(

but that's not enough to overcome the crappy suspension design...;)

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by Renn 208
but that's not enough to overcome the crappy suspension design...;) In all seriousness... really? I thought the 203 was better hgandling w/its rack & pinion and coil over suspension.

Also, I thought I'd share. Here's an advantage of the swap that became evident these last few days ...

As it's been raining on/off but mostly on these last few days, I've had the car in "W" [stands for Winter in winter or Wet in summer :p ] for 2nd gear starts, so I get "some" traction on takeoff (I hate my current tires). What's great about that is the thick torque curve allows the car to ride the limit of tire adhesion not only between 0 - 20 mph, but up through the 0 - 50 mph range ... pulls so smooth and powerfully off idle.

[Renn 208]

Originally posted by 98c43amg
In all seriousness... really? I thought the 203 was better hgandling w/its rack & pinion and coil over suspension.



Ask nukblazi if he's happy with the 203 suspension geometry

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by Renn 208
Ask nukblazi if he's happy with the 203 suspension geometry yes I heard the handling on all the latest w203 is much better than the handling on the boaty w202's.

[Renn 208]

Originally posted by coolcarlskic43
yes I heard the handling on all the latest w203 is much better than the handling on the boaty w202's.

I'm not sure he'd agree with you.

[speedybenz]

Renn208 is right the new W203's have a much poorer suspension design than our W202's. With the struts up front they cannot get enough neg. camber to keep the tires under the car, so they end up tearing up the outside of the tires in very hard driving. Plus the W203's are heavier still.

Although my W202 just has the stock 4.3L engine, the suspension allows me to carry much higher corner speeds and that allows me to be faster off the corner onto the straights. Lots of people have wanted to know if I had a Supercharger in the car.

This last Sunday I was getting higher front tire pressures than I really wanted to see so with the suspension I have( Steve will have his soon) I was able to add some rebound damping to the rear of the car to slow weight transfer across the corners of the car and thus work the front tires less. This small change resulted in a 2 sec improvement in my lap times and much better tires temps and pressures.

Jeff

[98c43amg]

Hey Jeff (I liked that tangent ;) ),

thanx for the explanation. 2 seconds is major. Incredible how you have that car dialed in. ...I've been looking into car clubs on the east here and plan to get some track time in the upcoming years ...

I believe you were looking for under 1:30 on that track ...(?) Did you achieve that?

[speedybenz]

At Willow Springs in Southern California I am looking to get under 1:30mins.

Up here at Thunderhill in Nor Cal I was looking for laps in the 2:05 range which is the lap record for a fully race prepped BMW M3. Right now I am at 2:09 or so and need better tires to help reduce that time. Time to fork out for the Hoosiers, ouch.

Jeff

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by speedybenz
At Willow Springs in Southern California I am looking to get under 1:30mins.

Up here at Thunderhill in Nor Cal I was looking for laps in the 2:05 range which is the lap record for a fully race prepped BMW M3. Right now I am at 2:09 or so and need better tires to help reduce that time. Time to fork out for the Hoosiers, ouch.

Jeff Mmmm I guess I stand corrected W203 vs W202.

[98c43amg]

So have any team leaders/owners approached you yet...? :classic:

[Denlasoul]

Hello everyone-

In light of all these 5.5L swaps, I have been doing some thinking about alternative options. Instead of going for the whole swap, why not just change parts of the 4.3L engine?

I got this information from the mbusa.com website: The CLK55 and E55 have a compression ratio of 10.5:1. They have a bore of 9.70cm and stroke of 9.19cm. Conversely, the engine in my C43 has a 10:1 compression ratio, 8.99cm bore and 8.41cm stroke. As you can see, the difference is quite minimal. Doing the math, I get an internal cylinder volume of 533.6cc for the c43 and 678.8cc for the E/CLK55. Multiply those numbers by 8 and you get a 4268.8cc and 5430.4cc total displacement.

I was thinking about obtaining the E55 engine block, having some pistons and connecting rods made, and swapping them over to my C43. Now I know it will not be that easy, but maybe worth a shot.

Would any of you know if the following items the same part for both the C43 and E/CLK55 engines? I am thinking that the cylinder head, crankshaft and cams might be different between the two engines, but not 100% sure. Are there any other items I am missing, maybe the valves and valve springs, or the fuel injectors? I would think they would be the same, but then again I am no expert in engines or engine building.

Any information or thoughts would be helpful. Thank you all for inspiring me! :D

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by speedybenz
Time to fork out for the Hoosiers, ouch.
I'm hoping I'll get to help fund that purchase, soon. :D

[speedybenz]

Denlasoul,

What about this idea. Call Metric Motors and get a 5.0L motor for about $1,500 complete. Then tear it apart.

Get the crank machined to use Honda sized Rod Bearing and grind the crank with and offset to pick up stroke. Over bore the block 1 or 2 mm or possible and use some JE or Wiseco pistons to save about 100gms per piston. If a longer rod is needed even better because it lets the piston dwell at TDC longer for a better use of fuel and air.

Tighten up the piston to cylinder head clearance to 0.030" to improve combustion and reduce detonation.

Have new valve guides made so use can oder new valves from Manely with smaller diameter stems that will weigh less and have them make Ti valve spring retainers.

Get the cylinder head ported and most likely it will require a reduction in port size.

Up the rpm to 7000. Install into car and bang, zap, zammy you should hasve about 400Hp anf similar torque number for quite a bit less $$$$.

Jeff

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by speedybenz
Denlasoul,

What about this idea. Call Metric Motors and get a 5.0L motor for about $1,500 complete. Then tear it apart.

Get the crank machined to use Honda sized Rod Bearing and grind the crank with and offset to pick up stroke. Over bore the block 1 or 2 mm or possible and use some JE or Wiseco pistons to save about 100gms per piston. If a longer rod is needed even better because it lets the piston dwell at TDC longer for a better use of fuel and air.

Tighten up the piston to cylinder head clearance to 0.030" to improve combustion and reduce detonation.

Have new valve guides made so use can oder new valves from Manely with smaller diameter stems that will weigh less and have them make Ti valve spring retainers.

Get the cylinder head ported and most likely it will require a reduction in port size.

Up the rpm to 7000. Install into car and bang, zap, zammy you should hasve about 400Hp anf similar torque number for quite a bit less $$$$.

Jeff Yes I agree Jeff this is also the cheaper way to go especially you use the 5.0L blck. MB wants 700.00 per piston and 615.00 per rod. 3k for the crank.KRAZEE! I priced it all yesterday.



The AMG 4.3L heads are different than the heads used on the 5.5L motor.The valve springs are different as are the cams.The pistons are obviously different and from what I understand the blck in all of the 5.5L motors are actually 5.0L blcks.The pistons for the 5.0 and 5.5L are the same bore but the piston rod I understand is positioned much higher in the piston used for the 5.5l app.The 5.5L motor has it's own crank shaft as does the 5.0L app and the 4.3L app.Each app has it's own camshaft as well and the C43 has it's own unique valve springs as does the 5.5L motor.


P.S. The E55 and C43 use the same exact fuel injectors(green) and intake manifold.



I think Jeff has a more economical and more hp potential way to build one of these M113 motors



5.0L motor with aftermarket internals and 5.5L crank is the ticket.