Premium fuel only setting?

[nokia8860]

I'm working with a local indie shop here that is more than willing to do things with my cars settings provided I just tell them where it is so they dont have to go looking via the star.

So where is the menu/page that allows the map for only premium fuel.

[nokia8860]

http://www.club202.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=551&highlight=fuel


see searching works. thanks david for the screen shot!

[nokia8860]

and ground this project before it even takes off. I just called the indies tech and his is a strip down version of SDS and cannot access that part of the ME-SFI.

I wonder when Mr.NL will be in town ;)

[Renn 208]

I'm still waiting for someone to prove to me that playing with this setting improves upon the default. As far as I can read from the screens, playing with this setting can only retard timing.

[c55m8o]

:rolleyes:

[nokia8860]

Originally posted by Renn 208
I'm still waiting for someone to prove to me that playing with this setting improves upon the default. As far as I can read from the screens, playing with this setting can only retard timing.

Of course if the shop was able to do this for me I would put up a review with dyno to see if this mod is worth it or just crap.

Anyone up in your area willing to see if it really works? I know Jeff posted it help low end... but you know we want graphs and number!

[c55m8o]

Originally posted by Renn 208
I'm still waiting for someone to prove to me that playing with this setting improves upon the default. As far as I can read from the screens, playing with this setting can only retard timing. (...not maximum amount of retard, i.e. minimum advance? I'm still confused about that one myself. )

OK, how 'bout 'dis...?

Compare :
- Carl's C55 dyno curve on "default". (http://www.club202.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6608)
- to mine on RON93 (http://www.club202.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7257)

Notice mine is around 325 ft-lb of torqe after an upshift (around 4500 - 4700 rpm) and Carl's is 310. That's some quantitative proof.

The qualitative proof is when both Carl and Jeff M. (the installer who did the swap) drove my car, they were both flip'm over the engine's response to movement of the right foot.

Like I keep saying, it's not raw power you're picking up with the RON93 setting. It's more low end torque and drivability, with a more immediate connection between the gas peddle and what the engine does; where the latter will never show up in any dyno graph, but I think you'll agree, what can be shown of more low-end torque in general, is visible. I wish our cars had "M mode" so I could have locked the tranni in 4th ... the boost in the torque curve would be even more visible. But again, what can't be graphed is with it, gone is the 1/2 to 1 second of thinking before the rpms build after pushing on the gas peddle.

[c55m8o]

Originally posted by nokia8860
I know Jeff posted it help low end... but you know we want graphs and number!

...but when I say it it's not worth a mention ... GEEZ! :hurt:

EDIT: BTW, when talking to Jeff (speedybenz) about intake and exhaust mods, he states once the car can breath better, default works better. When I drove his car, and I'm pretty sure he wasn't on RON93 @ the time, I tend to agree.

[nokia8860]

I am confused by your last statement :confused:

[c55m8o]

...just comparing the number of characters written on the subject. I intimately know about this setting, and have written detailed accounts on many occasion (not only on this board) ... just feeling a bit dismissed, that's all.

[nokia8860]

Dont feel sad.

Why just look at all the info I post about stuff I have done and no one really search for them. They just ask the question all over again and wonder if anyone else has done it before :p

I just hope I can find a shop... the MB dealer has been mean to me so I need indie.. to do this for me.

[c55m8o]

Originally posted by nokia8860
Dont feel sad.

How can I... did you read the other thread speedybenz just wrote about the shocks to my attention? :p


Why just look at all the info I post about stuff I have done and no one really search for them. They just ask the question all over again and wonder if anyone else has done it before :p ...you mean just like you did? I got a kick out of that. I was going to suggest using "Search" but was going to give you the thread. ;) I just wasn't quick enough.


I just hope I can find a shop... the MB dealer has been mean to me so I need indie.. to do this for me. Ah, that's why... I was wondering. Because I never really had a problem having it switched @ the dealership (but yes, some bucks passed to the tech in thanx)

[Renn 208]

Originally posted by c55m8o
I intimately know about this setting, and have written detailed accounts on many occasion (not only on this board) ... just feeling a bit dismissed, that's all.

But what you have written in this thread is confusing, so if there's a concrete message you're trying to get across with regard to this setting, it's about as clear as mud at the moment.

Hopefully then you can clarify:

1. How does comparing two different cars' dynos help in providing quantitative proof? I'd rather a before and after dyno on the same car, on the same day. There are just too many other variables tossed in when comparing different cars.

2. Your statement about Jeff's experience is that default is the best setting

The only conclusion that I can come up with at this point is that you're saying that the "RON 93" setting is best for cars with some sort of air flow restriction whereas default is best for cars with plenty of air flow? Is that correct?

Hate to be the stogy skeptic...but in absence of something definitive, the doubts will remain.

[c55m8o]

Almost had the mechanic with the Star Diagnosis computer of his there at the dyno shop with me, to turn on and off RON93 between passes ... however I actually called him and told him not to come because it didn't look like I wouldn't be getting any runs in that day because their air compressor was down (used to stop the machine). However the shop got a guy in to wire/plumb in a temporary replacement. I didn't want to bug Jeff (M.) again.

So your thinking is two E55 engines are going to be that far apart @ 4500 rpm? ...especially when the torque output @ redline is the same? ...and what about responsiveness comments? Sorry, I'm not going to agree. Carl, what are your thoughts. Was there a difference between your car's "feel" and mine? How would you describe it?

Is your car set up like Jeffs? Then run default and that'll be that. When I add pheloic (sic) spacers, thermal insulation, perhaps bore the throttle body, install headers, probably hi-pref cats and custom exhaust, I'm most likely going to go back to "default" on the ignition setting based on Jeff's comment and having experienced it 1st hand, and =knowing= I'm giving up a "little" near redline on RON93; I'll at least try it. Until then, I know how my car responds on default; I'm staying on RON93.

Ya know, just frig'n Try IT! nokia8860's position he finds himself in is not typical. It's really not that big a deal to have your dealership set the car to RON93. Give it a week. If you don't like it, set it back. [!] (I'm almost tempted to send you the C-note to grease the tech palms with ... tempted, but I won't. :p )

[speedybenz]

Here is my take on this. The RON93 setting does retard the timing from the stock default setting as I recorded on my Scanner during some high rpm acceleration testing. But what I also found was the the timing stayed more consistant and did not retard at all or very little when the engine heat soaked, etc.

The stock default setting does allow more ignition advance but when the engine gets heat soaked, hot intake air, etc the ECU retards the timing further so it can protect the engine from what it is programed to see as potentially damaging conditions(detonation). This timing pull back results in even less timing advance than the RON93 setting, so you end up with a sluggish car.

With RON93 the timing stays more advanced in these heat soak cases and thus gives better throttle response and accel. in many cases.

However, If you do as I have and cooled the intake charge down to where it rarely gets higher than 10-14 degrees over ambeint then the default timing seems to work a little better. Plus with the increase in exhaust flow it allows the combustion gases to get out of the engine faster and thus makes the cylinder chamber less prone to detonation and thus is more likely to allow the default timing to stay in-place without retarding the ingition and making the engine feel sluggish.

Jeff

[98c43amg]

Nokia8860 (sorry I don't know your real name), you need a "bow to the master" smiley on this board.
;) :D

Jeff, I know you told me that in so many words ... Sorry to you and Renn that I could not re-iterate it in such a way.

Thank you.

[c55m8o]

(wa...? how the heck did I revert to the ident 98c43amg...? Sorry, off-topic ; just thought I'd throw that out, as it was pretty weird to see.)

[Renn 208]

so, if I understand correctly, rather than advance or retard timing on an absolute scale, switching from default to RON 93 narrows the band of timing adjustment available in response to inputs.


very interesting

[nokia8860]

Originally posted by Renn 208
so, if I understand correctly, rather than advance or retard timing on an absolute scale, switching from default to RON 93 narrows the band of timing adjustment available in response to inputs.


very interesting

this is my understanding as well. However, from what speedy has posted about the car not able to work with more variables due to engine heat would worry me as temps in my region will be 110 this week.

I wonder if this will be an issue. More thinking I must do.

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by c55m8o
Almost had the mechanic with the Star Diagnosis computer of his there at the dyno shop with me, to turn on and off RON93 between passes ... however I actually called him and told him not to come because it didn't look like I wouldn't be getting any runs in that day because their air compressor was down (used to stop the machine). However the shop got a guy in to wire/plumb in a temporary replacement. I didn't want to bug Jeff (M.) again.

So your thinking is two E55 engines are going to be that far apart @ 4500 rpm? ...especially when the torque output @ redline is the same? ...and what about responsiveness comments? Sorry, I'm not going to agree. Carl, what are your thoughts. Was there a difference between your car's "feel" and mine? How would you describe it?

Is your car set up like Jeffs? Then run default and that'll be that. When I add pheloic (sic) spacers, thermal insulation, perhaps bore the throttle body, install headers, probably hi-pref cats and custom exhaust, I'm most likely going to go back to "default" on the ignition setting based on Jeff's comment and having experienced it 1st hand, and =knowing= I'm giving up a "little" near redline on RON93; I'll at least try it. Until then, I know how my car responds on default; I'm staying on RON93.

Ya know, just frig'n Try IT! nokia8860's position he finds himself in is not typical. It's really not that big a deal to have your dealership set the car to RON93. Give it a week. If you don't like it, set it back. [!] (I'm almost tempted to send you the C-note to grease the tech palms with ... tempted, but I won't. :p ) I liked Speedy's explanation based on his mods and experience.But Steve has introduced the Ron 93 use to us.


Steve's car felt like a beast when I first drove in it.My car had modded soft ware and his car stck software.Steve and I lined up the cars and I swear down low he's right there with me for a good long while until we both shut it down.Steve however feels that my car has a little more up top vs me feeling his car has more lowend TQ.This is perhaps because of the Ron 93 setting which I have been contemplating.But since I want to 1/4 mile my car I need the top end so I'm going to leave the modded ECU on the default setting.w

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by c55m8o
Almost had the mechanic with the Star Diagnosis computer of his there at the dyno shop with me, to turn on and off RON93 between passes ... however I actually called him and told him not to come because it didn't look like I wouldn't be getting any runs in that day because their air compressor was down (used to stop the machine). However the shop got a guy in to wire/plumb in a temporary replacement. I didn't want to bug Jeff (M.) again.

So your thinking is two E55 engines are going to be that far apart @ 4500 rpm? ...especially when the torque output @ redline is the same? ...and what about responsiveness comments? Sorry, I'm not going to agree. Carl, what are your thoughts. Was there a difference between your car's "feel" and mine? How would you describe it?

Is your car set up like Jeffs? Then run default and that'll be that. When I add pheloic (sic) spacers, thermal insulation, perhaps bore the throttle body, install headers, probably hi-pref cats and custom exhaust, I'm most likely going to go back to "default" on the ignition setting based on Jeff's comment and having experienced it 1st hand, and =knowing= I'm giving up a "little" near redline on RON93; I'll at least try it. Until then, I know how my car responds on default; I'm staying on RON93.

Ya know, just frig'n Try IT! nokia8860's position he finds himself in is not typical. It's really not that big a deal to have your dealership set the car to RON93. Give it a week. If you don't like it, set it back. [!] (I'm almost tempted to send you the C-note to grease the tech palms with ... tempted, but I won't. :p ) I liked Speedy's explanation based on his mods and experience.But Steve has introduced the Ron 93 use to us.


Steve's car felt like a beast when I first drove in it.He has modded the software since then but I must say his car ran very impressive.My car had modded soft ware and his car stck software.Steve and I lined up the cars and I swear down low he's right there with me for a good long while until we both shut it down.Steve however feels that my car has a little more up top vs me feeling his car has more lowend TQ.This is perhaps because of the Ron 93 setting which I have been contemplating.But since I want to 1/4 mile my car I need the top end so I'm going to leave the modded ECU on the default setting.With the timing advanced too much you will lose some top end but gain on the low!