All this talk about swaps...

[Renn 208]

someone needs to put this in their 202:

http://www.germancarfans.com/news/2050712.007/2050712.007.1M.jpg

The World's Most Powerful Normally Aspirated Eight-Cylinder Engine Made by Mercedes-AMG



Mercedes-AMG has taken a completely new departure: the new AMG 6.3-litre V8 engine is the first in the world to combine the high-revving concept with a large displacement. Developed entirely by AMG, this high-performance engine has a displacement of 6.3 litres and generates an output of 375 kW/510 hp at 6800 rpm, plus a maximum torque of 630 Newton metres, which makes the new power pack by AMG the world’s most powerful naturally aspirated eight-cylinder production engine. Thanks to its large displacement, the V8 by AMG develops around 20 percent more torque than comparable naturally aspirated engines in this performance class.



Made completely from high-strength aluminium, this naturally aspirated V8 engine has a wealth of exciting features derived from motorsport, and impressively documents the successful motor racing history of AMG. Together with a variable intake manifold featuring two integral throttle flaps, the vertical arrangement of the intake and exhaust ducts ensures perfect cylinder charging. Bucket tappets in the cylinder heads allow a stiff valve train and therefore high engine speeds. Variable camshaft adjustment, a particularly rigid closed-deck crankcase and cylinder walls with a new, revolutionary LDS coating are further attributes of this ultra-modern V8 engine made by Mercedes-AMG.



The high expectations of AMG customers and the impressive history of AMG eight-cylinder engines were both an incentive and an obligation for the engineers and product planners at Mercedes-AMG GmbH to come up with a superlative new V8 power unit. A mere glance at the key technical data shows that this has been achieved: from a displacement of 6208 cubic centimetres, the AMG V8 aluminium engine develops a peak output 375 kW/510 hp at 6800 rpm and a maximum torque of 630 Newton metres which is available from 5200 rpm. The maximum engine speed is 7200 rpm.



Keys figures at a glance:



Displacement: 6208 cc

Bore/stroke: 102.2/94.6 mm

Compression ratio: 11.3 : 1

Output: 375 kW/510 hp at 6800 rpm

Max. torque: 630 Nm at 5200 rpm



This unique combination of a fast-running concept and a large displacement achieves the best of both worlds: exhilarating flexibility accompanied by high torque at low engine speeds. The driver experiences the decidedly sporty character of the engine in the form of great agility and dynamic responsiveness in all engine speed ranges. The new AMG V8 already delivers 500 Newton metres to the crankshaft at 2000 rpm, while the maximum of 630 Newton metres is on tap at 5200 rpm – more than any other naturally aspirated engine in this output and displacement class. In short, the new AMG eight-cylinder guarantees dynamic acceleration, rapid intermediate sprints and sheer driving pleasure at the highest level.



Completely autonomous development from Affalterbach



In design terms the new eight-cylinder engine by Mercedes-AMG is the first completely autonomous development to have no features or shared parts whatsoever in common with other eight-cylinder units by Mercedes-Benz. The new 6.3-litre unit differs from the other AMG V8 engines based on Mercedes designs in the distance between cylinders, the crankcase concept, the sophisticated intake and exhaust manifolds and the valve train; the bore/stroke ratio is also a completely new departure for Mercedes-AMG.



The new powerpack is produced at the ultra-modern AMG engine workshops, according to the "one man, one engine" philosophy. This means that a single technician assembles the complete engine by hand – as witness his signature on the engine’s AMG badge.



For more information visit: www.Mercedes-AMG.com

[Under Pressure]

YOu know, when AMG started using forced inductin I sort of thought they lost that magic. Looks like its back!

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by Under Pressure
YOu know, when AMG started using forced inductin I sort of thought they lost that magic. Looks like its back!


Ditto..!!!

I have a thing or two for NA V-8 engines' :D (but you probably already know that eh AJ ;) )


Regardz,

[Denlasoul]

OMG! I need one of those.

I agree with you UP, about the s/c thing. I guess they wanted to change it up. :confused: I'm glad that it is startig to go back to n/a.


Originally posted by J Irwan
I have a thing or two for NA V-8 engines' :D (but you probably already know that eh AJ ;) )
He's not the only one! ;)

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by Denlasoul
OMG! I need one of those.

I agree with you UP, about the s/c thing. I guess they wanted to change it up. :confused: I'm glad that it is startig to go back to n/a.


He's not the only one! ;)


LOL .. .:D:D:D

ssh..!!! :p (keep it on the down low...will ya ;) )



Regardz,

[coolcarlskic43]

All I can say is DAMN!!!!!!!!

[c55m8o]

too bad MB'll probably put a big ugly plastic cover over it when installed in the engine bay... :rolleyes:

[c55m8o]

Originally posted by Renn 208
someone needs to put this in their 202... ...if it could only be plug & play like the W210's 5.4L motor... :dpress: same reason we can't use the supercharged 5.4L motor. In lay terms (the only way I know how to explain it @ the moment) the Bosche controller version required by the eingine is newer then what the W202 V8 cars are equipped with. Changing the controller has a far reaching effect I believe, throughout many systems of the car.

...can dream tho...

edit: BTW, how many valves per cylinder?

[Renn 208]

it's nothing a little motec couldn't fix right?:p

[c55m8o]

Originally posted by Renn 208
it's nothing a little motec couldn't fix right?:p

well then I might as well turbo my engine... I have access to the right people... :D ...oops, wrong thread to mention F/I.

[coolcarlskic43]

Why does MB insist on feeding the intake manifold from the rear of the engine! Why can't they do it like GM,BMW and Toyota for crying out loud!

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by coolcarlskic43
Why does MB insist on feeding the intake manifold from the rear of the engine! Why can't they do it like GM,BMW and Toyota for crying out loud!

good eye..

But at least this is a V-8 so it will 2 intake airbox..


I thought about that with my C36 vs e36 M3... clearly BMW intake has shorter intake path, in which contribute a lot to the quicker/more responsive throttle response...


Regardz,

[jstrat85]

this is a really nice motor but im a big fan when it comes to turbos!!! i would through a twin turbo on this motor! it will be sikkkkkk:D :D :D ;)

[fastmayte]

good god. that thing is the monster

[Fantasmweb]

is this engine ready for new M3 or new M5? so far i know the new M3 will have 5L 400hp+ engien

[Sulaco]

Anyone else noticing the heads on these? The locations of the spark plugs? Striking similarities with the legendary chrysler Hemi...

Sounds to me like they're milking Chrysler's most successful engine design thanks to the merger.

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by Sulaco
Anyone else noticing the heads on these? The locations of the spark plugs? Striking similarities with the legendary chrysler Hemi...

Sounds to me like they're milking Chrysler's most successful engine design thanks to the merger.



If thats how you draw the conclusion... ? of the location of the spark plugs..

You gotta be kiding me.

Most V-8 engine will have the same location of the sparkplug from Audi RS-6, S4-V8 RS4 V-8 to name just a few example..

After all on V-8 engine block where else can the spark plug located ;)


Regardz,

[Sulaco]

So you're saying spark plugs can't be anywhere but top-dead-center on the valve covers headed straight into each combustion chamber?
http://www.audiworld.com/news/02/rs6detail/rs6d015.jpg

Don't see any plugs running straight through the top of that head.

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by Fantasmweb
is this engine ready for new M3 or new M5? so far i know the new M3 will have 5L 400hp+ engien I understand it will be a 4.0L 400hp V8 in the E90 M3

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by J Irwan

Most V-8 engine will have the same location of the sparkplug from Audi RS-6, S4-V8 RS4 V-8 to name just a few example..

After all on V-8 engine block where else can the spark plug located ;)


Regardz, The reason the sparkplugs are in the middle of the head is because it's a multivalve head. No matter what country the car is made in all multi valve heads whether it be a 16v 4cyl,24V L6 or V6,multi valve Audi head(5valves per cyl),32V 8cyl,the sparkplug will sit in the middle of the combustion chamber on the top of the cylinder between the valves for efficient and maximum combustion.That's the way it has to be constructed because of the placement of the multivalves.Sparkplug would be in the way and take up space.On a 2valve or three valve head like the one's on the M113 v8 it's ok to place the plugs on the side of the head because there is room to place it there.No valve in the way.

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by Sulaco
So you're saying spark plugs can't be anywhere but top-dead-center on the valve covers headed straight into each combustion chamber?
http://www.audiworld.com/news/02/rs6detail/rs6d015.jpg

Don't see any plugs running straight through the top of that head. Because the plugs are recessed .Theyre not gonna just be sticking out there so you can see them.If the valve covers were there you would see that they run down thru the middle of the valve cover and into the center of the head.

[Sulaco]

Ah, well, I was simply making a suggestion. The There's really no way to be certain either way without seeing the actual combustion chambers on the bottom of the head.

But in that audi pic, I posted it because I really can't see anywhere where the plugs could go down through that head? Has anyone seen the naked RS-6 V8 up close? I've always been curious. It looks to me (in the pic) like it has one rocker assembly per head, making it impossible for the plugs to run down through the top-center.

The 6.3l AMG looks like it has two rocker assemblies per head, plugs between them.

If only I had the money to just buy these engines and look for myself :)

Edit: rocker assemlies, not cams. Silly me!

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by Sulaco
Ah, well, I was simply making a suggestion. The There's really no way to be certain either way without seeing the actual combustion chambers on the bottom of the head.

But in that audi pic, I posted it because I really can't see anywhere where the plugs could go down through that head? Has anyone seen the naked RS-6 V8 up close? I've always been curious. It looks to me (in the pic) like it has one cam per head, making it impossible for the plugs to run down through the top-center.

The 6.3l AMG looks like it has two cams per head, plugs between them.

If only I had the money to just buy these engines and look for myself :)


Regarding RS-6 take a look at S4 V-8 or RS4 V-8...
The sparkplug location is also similar..
On RS-6 hard to see the spark plug location because it is cover by the huge airbox...on top of it.

To put it in layman term RS-6 basically (simply put) Twin Turboed S4 V-8 engine. ;)


Regardz,

[Under Pressure]

I was just thinking and I figured out what will happen. First, AMG will plop this engine in their cars, lets say an S Class, and will call it the "S63" and charge a small fortune. Everyone will buy it and thiunk they have an exclusive car. Then after a year or two, AMG will turbo the same engine or supercharge it and sell it for still around same price, making the NA version obsolete. Then to further put salt in the wounds of those who bought it when it first came out, Mercedes will then offer them same engine in non-AMG cars also with forced induction of bored to bigger displacement.

I cant help but to think of the S55, which then get upgraded to the S55K, or that was also outshined by the S600, in terms of power. Mercedes is shady like that

[Renn 208]

Originally posted by Under Pressure
I was just thinking and I figured out what will happen. First, AMG will plop this engine in their cars, lets say an S Class, and will call it the "S63" and charge a small fortune. Everyone will buy it and thiunk they have an exclusive car. Then after a year or two, AMG will turbo the same engine or supercharge it and sell it for still around same price, making the NA version obsolete. Then to further put salt in the wounds of those who bought it when it first came out, Mercedes will then offer them same engine in non-AMG cars also with forced induction of bored to bigger displacement.

I cant help but to think of the S55, which then get upgraded to the S55K, or that was also outshined by the S600, in terms of power. Mercedes is shady like that

would you suggest that they only make engines without a clear upgrade path? I'm not sure what the alternative is?

[Under Pressure]

Originally posted by Renn 208
would you suggest that they only make engines without a clear upgrade path? I'm not sure what the alternative is?
Well I wouldnt call their upgrade path clear at all (in fact, its kind of surprising to those who bought expensive cars that should have waited a few more months for something better).

Let me ask you, how would you feel if in 2002 you paid full price for a new S55, only to get it outpowered by a more powerful supercharged version in 2003, and then shortly thereafter by the S600. I would be pretty pissed.

Most companies I know come out with a car they call their best in the line up, and it usually stays that way.

[c55m8o]

tell me about it. I ordered a CL55 AMG about 1/2 year before MB announced it and the dealership I was using @ the time (the NYC dealership, which is actually a fatory store) acknowledged they would be coming to the USA. However they assured me I was at the top of the list if they were coming here. What happens? You got it. I think they played favorites for about 70 cars before my sales person asked me if I wanted the CL55 AMG I ordered ... by then, the stock market and my options in my company were in the pits ; the little satisfaction I could have is letting that salesperson I was using know that had she gotten me the car early as I was supposedly at the top of the list, I'd have bought it; and that I did not buy my SLK from her in part because of that .... in retrospect now of course, I feel =very= lucky it all went down that way. I'd 'a been pissed if the forced induction CL55 was announced and came out right after I received my "regular" CL55.

edit: pissed is an extreme understatement of the frame of mind I would have been in.

[Renn 208]

Originally posted by Under Pressure


Let me ask you, how would you feel if in 2002 you paid full price for a new S55, only to get it outpowered by a more powerful supercharged version in 2003, and then shortly thereafter by the S600. I would be pretty pissed.

Most companies I know come out with a car they call their best in the line up, and it usually stays that way.

Funny you ask, because in 2002 I did but the "top of the line" with full knowlege that it would be outpowered the next year, and that supercharged 55s were coming. Where I differ is that I got the car for a good deal less than MSRP...and have been perfectly happy with it.

I understand how you feel, and I'm sure there are many others who agree. However, I've talked with a couple of sales guys local to me, and spoken at length with an AMG Product Manager in Affalterbach, and the reality is that customers who contribute the most to the AMG sales (on an individual basis) tend to keep their "top-of-the-line" cars for an average of only 13 months. If MB didn't keep coming out with "new hotness" to displace the old on that timeline, they'd lose sales.

Anyway, just another perspective on things.

[coolcarlskic43]

Well guys welcome to the realworld:D Cars are like computers nowadays.Always changing so fast because of us. Also consider the competition that the car makers have to deal with.
We as car enthusiasts and humans I may add ,have the insatiable desire of the something better,something more. I love it personally! This is business.$$$$$$$$ big $$$$$.The aftermarket producers are the same!LOL!
Steve did you say that now you want to supercharge,put headers,etc etc on your car.LOL! Why can't you leave it as it is! Oh and what about LSD! LOL!
I'm just busting your chops Steve!

Car manufactures know there's money in the aftermarket stuff so to make money they have to compete with these guys and produce F/I E55's,new and now turbocharged BMW's.We created all of this.I love it!! I can hardly wait to see an F/I 6.3L AMG car.

[c55m8o]

Originally posted by coolcarlskic43
Steve did you say that now you want to supercharge,put headers,etc etc on your car.LOL! Why can't you leave it as it is! Oh and what about LSD! LOL!
I'm just busting your chops Steve! :cool:
After hang'n out with your krew and see'n the level of performance they build, I know big dog, and I still ain't one yet... :p :D