Newb

[sig425]

Which would you get and why. c36 or c43

I have tried to search on benzworld and here to figure out which I should get as a base car for future fun. C36 or c43.. I cant seem to get the right search words or figure out which forum to be in as there isnt a "general automotive" section or a "newb start here" sticky. Sorry in advance

Which more reliable, more mod'able, more performance oriented.

so far I have figured out c36 switched to electric tranny in 97 and has a 6 vs the c43's 8. Aside from obvious hp gains, the v8 can accept a supercharger very easily. The 36 proved itself on the race track... but Im not sure if that translated itself to the street car or not? The 43 has no race heritage (if that even matters)

Slightly different body styling.

c36 has wiring issues and head gasket issues. 43 has adaptive tranny issues which may or may not be fixed by resetting the computer.

43 has a few bells and bangles like hid lights his and hers butt warmers, electric lumbar and a few other doo dads Im not sure if the 36 has.

Why is the c36 selling for more than the 43 on average?? Heck I can get a 99 43 for 16k and the 97 c36s go for as much???

W

[Denlasoul]

Well both cars are an excellent choice. Basically it boils down to preference and what you want to accompilsh with your car.

Like you said, the C43 has some options that were not available at the time for the C36. One thing you may consider it talking to MBnezNL, as he can pretty much do anything OEM on the W202. :D

Both cars have their share of problems, and it is difficult to say one is worse than the other. Most importantly, you should check the owner's history and service history. Grab the VIN and have MB pull it up for you. They will list what services were done to the car (or was it services performed under warranty?)

Each has its fair share of performance gains. The only major performance mod for the C36 has been a turbo (or two). I've never read anyhting about a s/c being dropped in. The C43 has a few more options, like 5.5L engine and s/c. Do not know if there are any turbo C43's out there, but would be killer if so.

But the above statements can be nullified if you have the $$.

In terms of cost, I believe that the C36 tends to cost more $$ due to its rarity and exclusivity. The C36 is the last true AMG tuned W202. They take the 2.8 and bore it out to 3.6, etc etc. The C43 got shafted and basically got a 430 engine with minor mods. If you get the 4.3, you can easily get the 5.5L engine as it is a direct swap.

My advise is to test drive both cars and see which one you like better. You may like/dislike the subtle difference in the cars. Personally, I love the sound of the V8. In addition, a well maintained C36 is worth more than a poorly maintained C43 and vise versa.

Good luck.

[Under Pressure]

I am the belief that more is ALWAYS better. C43, hands down.

[c280nz]

A 97 c36 should not have the wiring issues and head gasget issues u describe. i beleive the problems were fixed by this year :-s, Correct me if im wrong.
I would go for the c36.
So there u now have two ppl saying different things, its gona be your call, they are both good cars.

[nokia8860]

Originally posted by c280nz
A 97 c36 should not have the wiring issues and head gasget issues u describe. i beleive the problems were fixed by this year :-s, Correct me if im wrong.


Ok, consider yourself corrected then :)

[sig425]

looks like exterior and interior has only minor differences. The 36 has more aggressive lower valence. the 43 has a cleaner interior. Tough to say from the poor pics Im looking at.

Im thinking the ability to do the motor swap, fewer miles, and lower price makes me lean towards the 43. Problem is J Irwan's 36 is around the corner from me and it is a sweet ride... although a bit more than I want to spend.
http://www.club202.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7578

Thanks for the input.

[alphanumeric]

well.. I think the lighter c36 is a lil faster..forget its its faster 0-60 or the 1\4.. but the c43 would definityly be way faster on teh freeway..

I would choose the c43 because it has a v8, sounds more impressing.. as well as the exhaust.. I dont know how the c 43 stock exhaust sounds.. but my girls slk55 amg fucking sound amazing!! and I would amagine putting some mean mufflers on the c43 would sound just as bad ass

I am now kicking myself in the ass for buying my c230k w202 and not a c43 which I could have got for like 1-2k more.. oh well, would of been bad to have 2 gas guzzlers

oh ya the c43 is a newer model.. so it will prolly ride better as its not aged as much as c36's

[Denlasoul]

Originally posted by sig425
Problem is J Irwan's 36 is around the corner from me and it is a sweet ride... although a bit more than I want to spend.
I would pick up JIrwan's car over pretty much any C36/C43 out there right now.

[aintME]

Originally posted by alphanumeric
well.. I think the lighter c36 is a lil faster..forget its its faster 0-60 or the 1\4.. but the c43 would definityly be way faster on teh freeway..


i think the C43 is actually lighter. you cant go wrong either way. if you are serious, just shoot J an email. you should definitely check Js car out. i doubt you will find a cleaner w202 AMG.

[benzfan]

Originally posted by c280nz
A 97 c36 should not have the wiring issues and head gasget issues u describe. i beleive the problems were fixed by this year :-s, Correct me if im wrong.


You are right about the wiring issues. They were solved by model year 96. The head gasket is only a problem once.
The C36 has a 'raw' character to it that the C43 can't match (stock). I own one and have driven several C43s. I prefer the sound of the 6.

[c280nz]

Meh, half right(i had read sumwhere the "problems with the m104 engine had been corrected with the newer models; so that must have been refering to the wiring")
I would also think a c36 would hold its value better than a c43 which you may wish to consider

[J Irwan]

Either car you pick, just make sure you check out the condition of the car, and make sure the car is very well maintain..(ask to see service record)... a lot of dealership (usually non Mercedes dealer) said up front that they have service record when you test drive the car, but after Its a done deal they will make up all kind of excuses....because they don't have the service record...

My advise never buy AMG car on budget, or make a purchase decision based solely on price..

Eventually you will get to pay at the end.....

just FYI.

C36 has the following known issue:
.)leaking AC condensor (pron to all W202 even W210)
.)wiring harness (90% affect 95 and the rest 96, its never reported to be the case for 97)
.)head gasket (due do design flaw it affect 95 and 96. Sometime in 96 the fitted redesign part which should not leak. But even on 97 C36 (this is not just C36 specific as it also affect all M104 such as 97 C280) could also leak - in which case it happend to me as soon as I see a little seepage, I claim the warranty to replace the headgasket).
.)bad coil end (it affect mostly 95 and some 96).
transmission issue for 97 C36, 98 C43, 99 C43 - there are various issue with 722 5 speed electric tranmission from premature worn clutch pack, and defective retainer spring inside the tranny housing.



C43 has the following known issue:
.)leaking AC condensor (pron to all W202 even W210)
.)transmission issue for 97 C36, 98 C43, 99 C43 - there are .).)various issue with 722 5 speed electric tranmission from premature worn clutch pack, and defective retainer spring inside the tranny housing.
.)harmonic balancer failure - this could get very nasty and very expensive depending on how much damage this cause if not caught early enough (this affect all V engines from V-6 98 & up C280, CLK55 to W210 E55, even C32 as well)
.)and I am sure there are some other that I might missed from the list

I have heard some owner got the trasmission issue resolved by reprogrammed the transmission control unit to be less aggressive, in which in my opinion just a run around to postpone the inevitable..
short word : its just an MBUSA bull shit since I have driven a few C43 myself and let me tell you the tranny shiftin is crisp as crisp as 97 C36, but nowhere near too aggressive.

In my opinion the transmission is a weak part of W202 AMG.

According to my service advisor he had seen few cases where the tranny were toast .... and these are not even AMG cars , cases vary from W202, W208 and W210.

Its could be very related to misleading information provided by the MBUSA that all 5 speed electronic tranmission has lifetime fluid.

For the sake of argument, I don't think any fluid could withstand that much beating and mileage without break down in the properties... when the fluid is no longer helping..then your tranny just become a ticking bomb.
Now just imagine having these transmission on any AMG cars which has high engine output.

Therefor any good mechanic will recommend you to change the tranny fluid between 45K-60K and some will say 80K is the limit..


Like I said never buy AMG just based on price only....especially car without any warranty left.....


You might think you could save a few grand upfront, but when it need repair you will pay for it sooner or later..

Even C280 I-6 can be very expensive to own if the car is not properly maintained... ;)



Regardz,

[knvs]

Originally posted by Denlasoul
I would pick up JIrwan's car over pretty much any C36/C43 out there right now.

yeah J's car is amazing!!! His car is the reason y i bought a c43. Altho now I have a C55. I am one o them who have swapped in a e55 engine into the c class and I can't be more happier. Its just rips and such a blast to drive. I don't know y they didn't officially offer it to the US when new.

There are just a few upgrades on the C43 that makes it worth it to me. HIDs, seats, and v8 noise

[sig425]

J

I posted your link on the indy performance car web forum...
(Its a private forum for guys who track in Indy)

Now a few guys are talking about it over there. I told them they were ticking me off since I was thinking about buying it lol.

Anyway... as I track my car frequently.. Is the 36 a better track car? Im having difficulty getting data on the differences as it looks to be pretty much the same chasis.

As the AMG guru..... what are your feelings on the c36 vs the c43 and what are you buying to replace it?

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by sig425
J

I posted your link on the indy performance car web forum...
(Its a private forum for guys who track in Indy)

Now a few guys are talking about it over there. I told them they were ticking me off since I was thinking about buying it lol.

Anyway... as I track my car frequently.. Is the 36 a better track car? Im having difficulty getting data on the differences as it looks to be pretty much the same chasis.

As the AMG guru..... what are your feelings on the c36 vs the c43 and what are you buying to replace it?

As far as better track car, I can't really compare both car

as 97 and C43 has very very similar 0-60 and 1/4 miles time...
although C43 has more torque on the down-low but the throttle response is not as responsive as C36..

when you track your car, is comes down to
1. suspension setting, gi ven that these C36 and C43 has adequate power to begin with..

2.weight saving that can be done to the car,... as weight always been the biggest enemy of handling :)


To tell you the truth my car handling is not optimized for tracking in my opinion.
For that matter NO off the shelf product for W202 will make the W202 track ready ... unlike E36 M3 where they have a lot of product that will make that car a great track car...


One of the member on this forum speedybenz who track his C43 heavily.....
He has done some significant reduction on his car without stripping the car to just rollcage and bare metal.
He has custom suspesion setup, custom coil over threaded sleeve(spring perch), custom rate Eibach spring, and custom valved adjustable Penske Shock, custom adjustable front swaybar...etc.. (he has a the complete list ;) )

Jeff car is has best track setup I've seen so far for W202 cars......


If you're looking for a dedicated track car, you might be better of with lighter car..but comparable to W202 such as E36 3 series..


Don't get me wrong, W202 will still make a good track car but its not going to be a great track car.... withouth going the route for custom suspension component ... (any W202 chassis is too heavy to begin with , and I could say that the suspension design and geometry was not inteneded as a track car (like E36 3 series) from the factory to begin with.


But if you looking for comfort, luxury and a lot of torque... I can tell you that C36 and C43 is better on that deparment vs E36 M3.


Hope this helps.

Regardz,

[sig425]

I dont plan to track the mercedes. I have a track car for that. I just like the race heritage and the sport tuned suspension. I need a comfortable road car with some bling bling, and some serious arse hauling ability. Older mercedeses (mercedi?) are so sexy. The BMW is not really for me... there are just too many of them around..... unless I went e46 m3 in which case I could buy 2 c43's :D

Thanks for the input.

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by sig425
I dont plan to track the mercedes. I have a track car for that. I just like the race heritage and the sport tuned suspension. I need a comfortable road car with some bling bling, and some serious arse hauling ability. Older mercedeses (mercedi?) are so sexy. The BMW is not really for me... there are just too many of them around..... unless I went e46 m3 in which case I could buy 2 c43's :D

Thanks for the input.


then I would suggest you test drive both C43 and C36 back to back to find out which one you like more.......

(Keep in mind although C43 is newer and stuffed with V-8 engine (the engine came from Mercedes 4.3L which fitted with hotter cam, different airbox, different ECU programming, and AMG exhaust, while C36 is the symbol of AMG race heritage , hence it is the first AMG - Mercedes collaboration to offer AMG cars into Official Mercedes dealership).


Regardz,

[c55m8o]

Originally posted by knvs
Altho now I have a C55. I am one o them who have swapped in a e55 engine into the c class and I can't be more happier. Its just rips and such a blast to drive. I don't know y they didn't officially offer it to the US when new. quick off topic response ... My salesperson said, and I tend to agree, the reason there was no C55 (nor memory seats or tilt steering) was MB feels it necessary to "differentiate" the C from the E class ... put in other [real] words, MB felt [and still feels I guess] it necessary to keep the C in the E's shadow. :mad:

[Denlasoul]

no doubt. Though in 1998, the C43 was the fastest production line Mercedes. :D

[c55m8o]

...agreed, but not in 1999 after the E55... ;)

[sig425]

drove my first 43. Under city driving the tranmission was super silky. Under full throttle the nose took a huge dive between shifts.... it was almost as bad as missing a gear with a manual. I did a search on transmissions but couldnt really find a description of what a bad tranny was like vs the car learning a new driver.

Second... do they all have the W/S switch? I couldnt find one on this car.

[c55m8o]

Originally posted by sig425
drove my first 43. Under city driving the tranmission was super silky. Under full throttle the nose took a huge dive between shifts.... it was almost as bad as missing a gear with a manual. I did a search on transmissions but couldnt really find a description of what a bad tranny was like vs the car learning a new driver.

Second... do they all have the W/S switch? I couldnt find one on this car.

That's pretty weird! The ECU pulls back on the timing while shifting. I'm just remembering back many manyt years here, but maybe the clutch paks are worn (mine were worn @ 15K and I never ever stepped on the gas while on the brakes @ the same time) or are too loose. Come to think of it, I used to have a hard shift. I even liked it (complained like hell after the 1st tranni rebuild/repair). Though I don't remember a dive.

I have a '98, and it has the w/s to the left of the shifter. I'm pretty sure '99 has it. I can't say for the few '00s that were made, as those went to tiptronic. Did the car you drove have a gated shifter or the new tiptronic?

[J Irwan]

Thats pretty weird that the nose dive during the shift almost like engine braking (i.e downshifting)


even in the event that the clutch pack is worn the shifting should flare (delay ) then it engaged abruptly if this happen under hard acceleration you can be sure the car should be jerked forward... not a nose dive.


FYI, all electronic tranmission will have W/S button, even the steptronic ones.


Regardz,

[sig425]

Thanks

this was a 98 with a gated shifter. There was a small button between the window buttons on the left that I thought might have been it.

[sig425]

http://www.club202.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2381&highlight=hps

this is such a good thread I thought I would add it to my newb post for future searchers

[J Irwan]

To all, who considered buying 97 C36's and C43's don't get this to discourage you.

Here is another information http://www.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=117213


For all you know it might very well affect newer 5 speed tranmission as well (but you never know since based on age 97 and earlier C43's will accumulate pretty highmileage by now to experience the tranmission issue).


Just something to think about and take into consideration when buying 97 C36's and C43's especially if the tranny haven't been replaced. Chances are it will need to be replace sooner or later.

Also it would be a good info for current 97 C36's and C43's owner to source transmission unit should it goes south on their car...



Regardz,

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by J Irwan
To all, who considered buying 97 C36's and C43's don't get this to discourage you.

Here is another information http://www.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=117213


For all you know it might very well affect newer 5 speed tranmission as well (but you never know since based on age 97 and earlier C43's will accumulate pretty highmileage by now to experience the tranmission issue).


Just something to think about and take into consideration when buying 97 C36's and C43's especially if the tranny haven't been replaced. Chances are it will need to be replace sooner or later.

Also it would be a good info for current 97 C36's and C43's owner to source transmission unit should it goes south on their car...



Regardz,



Another unfortunate C43 owner - 99 C43

http://mercedes-amg-class.com/community/viewtopic.php?p=7730#7730


Regardz,

J Irwan

[sig425]

the tranny issue has me very concerned. As a result I am thinking the c32 might be for me so I dont have to worry about repairs as much.

Problem with the c32 is that, that c class body style is rated horrible by consumer reports and the dash cluster looks.. well words cant descibe how bad it looks. The exterior is sexy as heck but the inside is about as bad as it gets.

[aintME]

Originally posted by sig425
the tranny issue has me very concerned. As a result I am thinking the c32 might be for me so I dont have to worry about repairs as much.

Problem with the c32 is that, that c class body style is rated horrible by consumer reports and the dash cluster looks.. well words cant descibe how bad it looks. The exterior is sexy as heck but the inside is about as bad as it gets.

the w203 C32 has its own set of problems as well :confused: if you are intent on owning an AMG car, you should be prepared to pay for the various maintenance issues it comes with. i guess it is part of the cost of joining the club :bored:

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by sig425
the tranny issue has me very concerned. As a result I am thinking the c32 might be for me so I dont have to worry about repairs as much.

Problem with the c32 is that, that c class body style is rated horrible by consumer reports and the dash cluster looks.. well words cant descibe how bad it looks. The exterior is sexy as heck but the inside is about as bad as it gets.


Thats why no matter what the MBUSA said about the lifetime fluid I will always changed it at 30-45k miles interval.

And just so you know it doesn't affect only AMG car, non AMG car also the same way.


Now since you mentioned C32 V-6 kompressor you will be faced with another challenges :P
such as:
1. supercharger heat soaked that will leave the car no power (disengaged the kompressor unit) and sometime limp mode.
2. supercharger clutch failure - limp mode.
3. and the usual MB gremlins :D

Anyway, depending on what your current budget. 02 C32 (first year) can be had from low 30's to mid 30's these day
And 03 C32 can be had from mid 30's to high 30's.

However I personally would stay away from any first year production car, just enough for the Manufacture to sort out most of the bugs out.

Even 2nd- or 3rd year production will still have some gremlins, and I can't imagine the 1st year production would be like.

As far for transmission I can't really comment wheteher the newer MB will not have the same fate. As generally speaking 2001+ car will not have as much mileage from 97-98 cars..


Regardz,

[sig425]

heh. Ya. Price for a c43 + 6k for a new tranny still doest equal $32k for a c32.

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by sig425
heh. Ya. Price for a c43 + 6k for a new tranny still doest equal $32k for a c32.


the tranny including installation if you live in Indiana (Indiana labor rate) should be no more than $4800. (this is dealer rate).

But as I mentioned I am not 100% sure if C32 tranmission is bullet proof or not.

Feel free to search on old posts on mbworld, as I remember ed reading at least 2 C32 owner has transmission issue.


Anyway, just as Aintmee mentioned.
I am proud to own an AMG. But Mercedes in general its not bulleproof and especially AMG just the more chance of more component going to break down...

No matter what you purchase just make sure you are prepared for maintenance financially.
I personally never make a buying decision on high-performance car such as AMG, Audi S or BMW M based solely/only on price.. as I learned it will get you at the end (cost of ownership).

Whatever you decide make sure you inspect the car throroughly.


Regardz,

[sig425]

bought a 98 c43 on friday morning. Black with 2 tone interior. Love LOVE LUV this car :D best car I have ever owned in every way. This car is metallic sex.


So Im driving it home and a huge chunk of metal flys outa no where and makes 8 huged dent/scratch combos on the hood before it smashes the windshield. Gotta love Chicago freeways.

Still drivin home and the add oil light comes one. Pull over, 1 quart low. I'm pretty flustered so I close the hood and start driving. The smell of oil is everywhere. Then I rememebr I didnt put the cap back on. I turn around and search for the cap on the road as Im sure I heard it fall to teh ground. No dice. I open the hood and oil is everywhere. Luckily the panel under the engine caught it. I cant reach it as the manifold it too hot. I had all my work gear from the car i traded in (land rover) in the benz trunk So I take a ball of duct tape and put it on the end of a stick to pull the cap out of the bottom of the engine. A dirty shirt wipes up most of the oil.

Still driving, the ac control readout goes nuts. i think its reading korean now. Its works some times but a lot of info is missing. And the passenger mirror no longer works. 200 miles on the clock now.

I drive from the dealership in Chicago to the air port in Indy as I flew to new orleans Friday night for a weekend get away with the sweety. I leave the benz in the lot. Grumbly mad I am.

I arrive in New Orleans at 6:00 am Saturday. The hurricane that was supposed to peter out over Florida actually gains strength. We find this out while going out for breakfast at about 9:00 am. We return to our hotel at 1:00 pm Saturday to find out there is an evacuation in effect and we have to leave. We call the air line to get our tickets moved up but everything is booked. We can fly outa an airport 60 miles away provided we can get there in 3 hours. By now the inbound freeway system is shut down so all lanes can take traffic outa the city. Our cab driver takes a back route the the local airport so we can rent a car to drive the one 60 miles away. The line at the rental place is 1 hour long. The traffic out of the city is at a stand still and there is no place to go. I see a bunch of small planes in a hanger so I ask a guy if they are for charter. they are tour planes to fly around new orleans but the guy says he will fly us to the other airport. There was no way we would ever get there driving so we charter the plane and fly to baton rouge and then home to Indy. The shortest vacation ever!

The benz is glistening in the long term lot late saturday night. Her motor screaming out to me before I even get in her. It's one a.m. My vacation got cut short to 1 day instead of 5. But the leather feels sooooo good. She fires up and I head home.

The check engine light comes on after 3 miles. She's only 259 miles outa the dealership. Today, Sunday., I pull the codes P150, P161, p130, P156. O2 sensor issues across the board. I can erase the codes but they come right back. Sumpthins busted fo sure.

What a fun couple of days with my new car. At least I got a really good price on her with a free warranty in the deal.

peace!

[99amgc43]

get a c43, better body styling, better interior, more options, v8!!!

im selling mine! 1999 c43 check the classified section

[c55m8o]

sig425,

LOL - you deserve an award for "best attitude".

Nokia, send this dude some stickers man... ;)

[J Irwan]

congrats on the new ride :)

And I am glad you made it home okay..

I was watching the news and they reported that the weather was really really bad down there.......



Regardz,