Which springs?

[UniqueTouch]

Hi,

I have a w202 1999 C200 Elegance with 18" rims. It sitting as high as a tractor at the moment.

I have been offered a set of C36 AMG springs for £70+postage. I can also get a brand new set of H&R (http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?id=25179) for £130ish.

Which do you recommend I go for? I don't want it to cause any rubbing with a full load.

What spring pad # do you recommend aswell.

Many thanks for your help.

[benzfan]

The C36 springs are from the same production line as the C280. They simply selected the ones from the short end of the tolerance range. The C36 does, of course have different shocks and sway bars. Your pad choice will be individual to your car, but you will probably not get the look you want with only the C36 springs. My C36 sits MAYBE 1" lower than my C280, but you could mess with the pads and get a slightly lower look IF you have relatively thick pads currently. The best thing to do is have someone in the know have a peek at your current setup to get an idea of what you will need.

Someone else here might have experience with the H&Rs and could give you an idea of what to expect if you choose them.

[UniqueTouch]

Thanks benzfan.

In case this helps, heres what my ride looks like currently...

http://www.uniquetouch.co.uk/merc/3.JPG

http://www.uniquetouch.co.uk/merc/4.JPG

http://www.uniquetouch.co.uk/merc/5.JPG

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by benzfan
The C36 springs are from the same production line as the C280. They simply selected the ones from the short end of the tolerance range. The C36 does, of course have different shocks and sway bars. Your pad choice will be individual to your car, but you will probably not get the look you want with only the C36 springs. My C36 sits MAYBE 1" lower than my C280, but you could mess with the pads and get a slightly lower look IF you have relatively thick pads currently. The best thing to do is have someone in the know have a peek at your current setup to get an idea of what you will need.

Someone else here might have experience with the H&Rs and could give you an idea of what to expect if you choose them.


FYI C36 spring has different spring rate than regular C280. Hence stock C36 and C43 has much stiffer ride compare to C280.

If you use C36 spring on C280 your car might actually be higher.


UniqueTouch if you want to lowered, given your current gap in the picture I would go for H&R and pad#1 front and pad #2 on the rear.

And H&R has different part number for 4 cylinder, and 6 cylinder models.


Regardz,

[UniqueTouch]

Originally posted by J Irwan
UniqueTouch if you want to lowered, given your current gap in the picture I would go for H&R and pad#1 front and pad #2 on the rear.

And H&R has different part number for 4 cylinder, and 6 cylinder models.

Regardz,

Thanks J Irwan...do you know the part number I would need for mine for H&Rs? Are these >>ones<< (http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?id=25179) correct? How many's inches drop do you think that will give with the pad #s you specified?

Do you get any rubbing on your 'ulimate w202' ? It looks pretty low to me. I'm running 18x8 so will that cause me a problem?

I want to keep the smooth ride as much as I can but still want the car to look dropped.

Thanks for your help.

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by UniqueTouch
Thanks J Irwan...do you know the part number I would need for mine for H&Rs? Are these >>ones<< (http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?id=25179) correct? How many's inches drop do you think that will give with the pad #s you specified?

Do you get any rubbing on your 'ulimate w202' ? It looks pretty low to me. I'm running 18x8 so will that cause me a problem?

I want to keep the smooth ride as much as I can but still want the car to look dropped.

Thanks for your help.

I didn't get rubbing unless hard u-turn.
It because I rolled the front fender a little bit more.

If you don't want that low, then you could always go with pad #3 on the front and pad #4 on the back.


Front(W210 part number) :
210 321 01 84 pad#1 5 mm
210 321 02 84 pad#2 9 mm
210 321 03 84 pad#3 13 mm
210 321 04 84 pad#4 17 mm
210 321 05 84 pad#5 21 mm

Rear(W210 part number) :
210 325 01 84 pad#1 5 mm
210 325 02 84 pad#2 9 mm
210 325 03 84 pad#3 13 mm
210 325 04 84 pad#4 17 mm


As for the part number fro H&R I don't remember on top of my head.
Its best you search via H&R website (www.hrsprings.com)


I would also replace the shock with Bilstein Sport shock or Koni sport Shock, depending on your preference.


Regardz,

[UniqueTouch]

Thanks for the part numbers :)

Do I have to change the shocks at the same? Won't that mean I'll lose the smooth ride I have now?

Sorry if these are dumb questions - trying to get as much info before I spend money incorrectly.

:)

[benzfan]

Originally posted by J Irwan
FYI C36 spring has different spring rate than regular C280. Hence stock C36 and C43 has much stiffer ride compare to C280.

If you use C36 spring on C280 your car might actually be higher.




No, they don't have a different spring rate than the C280. They are the exact same springs at the short end of the tolerance range. The perceived differences with the C36 and C43 are due to the shocks and sway bars. Period.

[Denlasoul]

Originally posted by benzfan
No, they don't have a different spring rate than the C280. They are the exact same springs at the short end of the tolerance range. The perceived differences with the C36 and C43 are due to the shocks and sway bars. Period.
Wouldnt the springs of the C36/C43 have a stiffer spring rate due to the increased weight? Shocks only support the springs when they travel up and down. Also, what is the range of tolerance, ie what is the range of the spring rates?

[benzfan]

There really isn't any difference in weight between the C280, C36 and C43.
When a spring is wound, it will end up with a particular length. However, not all springs wound identically will end up with exactly the same free length, or exactly the same loaded length, despite having the same spring constant, or rate. They are all slightly different, which is why Mercedes uses the different thickness pads to 'shim' the car to the appropriate ride height and why anyone on this board who has gone with aftermarket springs has had to take the pads into consideration. So, with the C280 springs, Mercedes measures their free length, and chooses 2 for the front and 2 for the rear of each car that will work well together. There is a range specified by Mercedes for the free length of a front or rear spring. Some are thrown away as they don't meet the requirements, and the ones at the short end of the range were used on the C36.

Now, this may not be true of current AMG cars, in fact I am almost positive they get different springs now than their more mundane brethren, but the C36 had the same rate springs as the C280. Bear in mind that a thicker sway bar, which the C36 certainly had, and different damping rates on the shocks, which it also had, will affect the perception of ride stiffness.

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by benzfan
No, they don't have a different spring rate than the C280. They are the exact same springs at the short end of the tolerance range. The perceived differences with the C36 and C43 are due to the shocks and sway bars. Period.


I don't know where did you get the information

C36 especially have HWA part number on their spring which is AMG specific part number. Period. !!!

Please chcek your fact before posting. The last thing we want is misinformed other member.


Obviously the spring length and the number of coil does not signify the spring rate alone.

I can give the comparison all day long between E36 318i, E36 325i, E36 328i and E36 M3 that has almost the exact looks (same height and number or coil) but each has different spring rate.


About the thickness I said it many times that the original intend/purpose for alignment. And we the enthusiast fortunately able to use it to adjust the hieght by playing around with different pad.


Also my 1997 C36 came with pad#1 stock. Does that means it lower than US spec C280. US spec C36 and US spec C43 actually sit higher than non-AMG car.


Although I have a feeling 1997 C280 sport might have AMG spring and in which might stil be different than C36/C43.


Regardz,

[benzfan]

Originally posted by J Irwan
I don't know where did you get the information

C36 especially have HWA part number on their spring which is AMG specific part number. Period. !!!



US spec C36 and US spec C43 actually sit higher than non-AMG car.


Although I have a feeling 1997 C280 sport might have AMG spring and in which might stil be different than C36/C43.


Regardz,

My information came from 2 sources. One was an article in Mercedes Enthusiast Magazine, the other was someone I know personally and speak to regularly who worked for AMG in the 90s, so I was reasonably comfortable posting it. The presence of an AMG specific part number does not necessarily mean my info is wrong.

My C36 is stock and sits almost 1" lower than my C280, by the way. The C36 has less than 1/3 the mileage of the C280.

If I am proven wrong, and will do what research I can to that end, I will willingly and happily stand corrected, as the last thing I want to do is give wrong info.

[benzfan]

Well, far from disproving my earlier statement, I actually found a 3rd source confirming that I am correct.

Motor Trend Magazine, Feb 1995 issue, P87;

"The shocks are stiffer than the C280's, but spring rates are unchanged. The C36 sits a half inch lower by using springs from the short side of production tolerances."