Engine temps...what is normal?

[benzonline]

My car when fully warmed up..the needle is just a tad above the 80 mark.

Is this normal running temp for a W202 C230k?

[Hokke]

Originally posted by benzonline
My car when fully warmed up..the needle is just a tad above the 80 mark.

Is this normal running temp for a W202 C230k?

Yep, thats the normal temp. (83)
If the temp rices over to the next tad, then you have some trouble in cooling system

[NISMOPOWERED]

Thats where my runs unless its a hot day loaded it can get to the 100 mark.

[benzonline]

Ok then....got a bit worried just because my V8 MB runs cooler!

[manny]

Hotter engine ( within reason ) = lower exhaust emissions & better fuel economy. ;)

[Denlasoul]

Originally posted by manny
Hotter engine ( within reason ) = lower exhaust emissions & better fuel economy. ;)
Can you explain how so?

edit: Here is a relevant thread for the op: Click me (http://www.club202.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1555&highlight=temp)

[manny]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Denlasoul
[B]Can you explain how so?

Sure.
When you consider the principal of an engine, it amounts to nothing more than an airpump, converting fuel to energy.
By increasing the operating temperatures of the engine, more energy is utilized, rather than being waisted & expelled through the cooling system.
During this process harmful emissions are also reduced.
You may not remember, up until about 1970 ( before we got serious about exhaust emissions ), the most common thermostat use in an engine was 160 deg.
We eventually went to 180 & then to 196 deg. thermostats, for the reasons mentioned above.
Tests have shown that we will eventually run engines at about 300 deg. ( many, many modifications required ), to further decrease emissions, etc.
How do I know all this?
1. I've been involved with engines for about 40 years.
2. I've probably read 100's of books on the subject.
3. I own a 5-gas infrared exhaust gas analyzer, which I use on a daily basis. ;)

[Denlasoul]

Thanks manny. That is some informative stuff to know, hope it can clear up some myths and give better knowledge to the Member's.

[c280steve]

i have a c280 and just moved to flordia so i switched my thermostat to an 83 or so degree thermostat from the 96 or so one i had from up north. so if ppl run hot they could get a differant thermostat

[Sulaco]

"normal operating temp" of a 202 is a loaded question. But to sum it up, I'd say ANYWHERE bewteen 80 and 105.

[Abuimad]

a friend was in my car and the needle was on 83 and hes like i moded my 96 s class to run on 70, i was like huh y, hes like well every1 has got to do that 83 is waay to hot, and i was over at the mechanics and he replaces some kind of valve that allows the water to enter the engine from 83 to 70...so my engine is stil 83 but it never goes up no matter what, my question is....is 70 a normal temp and should i get it done ?

[benzonline]

70 might be a bit too cool.

[Sulaco]

Judging by my own experiences. I'd say 70 would be impossible for a 202. But if there's some kind of simple mod to make my car run cooler, I'm willing to threaten mass murder in order to learn what it is.

Plus, I don't think the C class and the S class have the same level of engineering in them. It's kind of hit or miss with our cars.

[Abuimad]

i talked to the same friend telling him 70 is a no go, its simply impossible, so a bet is on right now, and i will mod my car (he says its a 10 minute job) once i get it done i will definetly tell u all bout it, till then...enjoy

[Renn 208]

Originally posted by Abuimad
i talked to the same friend telling him 70 is a no go, its simply impossible, so a bet is on right now, and i will mod my car (he says its a 10 minute job) once i get it done i will definetly tell u all bout it, till then...enjoy

My engine runs at 50.......when I start her up for the first time in the morning, and only until she gets warmed up.

But the bigger questions is why are you shooting for something below the normal operating temp range? 80-100 is where our cars like to live. Reducing coolant temp is not like reducing Intake Air Temp...lower doesn't necessairly mean some big jump in power. When we talk about coolant temps, the primary concern is to prevent the engine from overheating. Once we've overcome the overheating problem, what's to motivate further reductions in coolant temp?

I can understand wanting to lower temps if your car is consistantly in the upper range of normal, but if it currently lives within the 80-100 range when warmed up...trying to push things even further down may have secondary effects that aren't desirable. That's where the limit of my knowledge begins...but typically my approach to a performance mod is to have a specific reason and purpose to do it. Bigger isn't always better as a car out of balance will come back to bite you....

[Abuimad]

true but since i live in semi desert region and the traffic to my university is a killer, my car tends to heat up so its common for people here to lower there car temp, because you dont want to over heat you car, in the middle of traffic on your way to a final exam :)

[Ashkan's C280]

thermostat to an 83??? does anyone have a part number to this??? My car runs close to a 100 on hto days, and well msot days, I have had the thermostat replaced as well as running two thigns of water wetter and it never changes, it does not go above 100 but its right up there all the time, and i'd like to keep it down below 90... help?

[r_widjaya]

my C180 here in australia run more responsive when the engine temp below 80 degress and after that its run awful ... especially when it gets to 90 or 100 degress ... changing thermostat???

[jnenad16]

the C280 thermostats are either 79 or 87 degrees celsius. Since I live in Hawaii, where humidity is always above 60%(up to 90% during summer and fall), I always choose the lower temp one, it is a must because the engine temps soar in traffic. on my C280(before I installed the electric fan thermoswitch), the temps in traffic would get to about 100 dergees, which is normal, but the performace would degrade significantly, so I installed the thremoswitch, set it to about 82 degrees(just above normal running temp, but so it doesnt engage while driving on freeway), and the temps never passed that setting. I install these thermoswitches on all of my and customer's benzes because they are great at combating the elevated temps without modifications possibly harmful to the engine. water wetter and similar coolant additives do help as well.

nenad

[Abuimad]

how hard is it to install, and how much $$ r we talking about
and does high engine temps really mess up the engine performance ?

[jnenad16]

http://www.bnzsport.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14787&hl=

here is the fixed link to the product:
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10002&storeId=10001&categoryId=21529&parentCategoryId=11471&langId=-1

nenad

[r_widjaya]

can someone give me the exact part number for the lower degree thermostat ??? and if possible D.I.Y for how to change the thermostat

thank you

[jnenad16]

Originally posted by r_widjaya
can someone give me the exact part number for the lower degree thermostat ??? and if possible D.I.Y for how to change the thermostat

thank you
go to www.autohausaz.com select year 1986 or 1987, select 260E, select cooling system, and there you'll see the 79 degree thermostat, dont worry, it fits and works perfectly on the 104 engines(inline 6 2.8, 3.2, 3.6). and yes, its a very simple DIY job. do a search, there are alot of threads that explain changing thermostat.

nenad

[Ashkan's C280]

so once you change the stat it will just turn the fans on sooner until its to that temp??? I am not sure what is actually going on... and the switch you are talking about, is that inside the car or just the bay?? Bit more details please

[Ashkan's C280]

do you need to switch and the stat or just one? and why would you not want the fans turning on while on the freeway?

[jnenad16]

the mechanical thermostat is located at the top of the water pump, its the 79 or 87 degree one. you can change this to have lower operating temps. now, the electric adjustable thermostat(thermoswitch) is the one that you connect to the auxiliary fans to prevent the temps from rising while idling or in traffic.

this is the pic of the thermoswitch installed(shiny thing left of the MSD coil), sorry I dont have a better pic
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/nenad16/DVC00223.jpg

[Ashkan's C280]

so do I need both the 79 stat and the switch or what? or just one or both?

[jnenad16]

to keep the temp low and still within specs and from raising too high while idling, I would recommend both, like I said, the thermostat will lower the operating temps a few degrees, and the thermoswitch will keep it from rising over the desired temp that you dial in, which I suggest is about 2 degrees C over the freeway cruising temps. you dont wont the fan on all the time because it puts unecessary strain on the other electical systems.

nenad

[Ashkan's C280]

so what temp should i set the switch too? I am seriously thinking about doing this soon, my car runs around 97-100 all the time sometimes over 100 in summer with ac, its within normal limits but thats hot for my taste....

[r_widjaya]

I have 124 back at my home .. i just change the switch to lower the degrees and it works ... never exceed 90 degress .. the engine operates between 78-90 degrees ... if anyone had the part number for the switch ( C 180 )it would be great

thanks

[jnenad16]

Originally posted by Ashkan's C280
so what temp should i set the switch too? I am seriously thinking about doing this soon, my car runs around 97-100 all the time sometimes over 100 in summer with ac, its within normal limits but thats hot for my taste....
change the thermostat first, then observe your new operating temps, and then install the thermoswitch and set it few degrees above the freeway temps.

nenad

[Ashkan's C280]

so after you do both can you get rid of the big fan? fan delete mod?

[jnenad16]

no you cant get rid of the cooling fan just like that. forget the cooling fan for now. just do those two little things and your overheating problems will go away.

nenad

[Ashkan's C280]

but why not, if you have a lower stat turning it on at 79 instead of 87, and a fan switch turning on the fans at 92 instead of a higher setting, there would be no need for that other larger fan because it would not be working, it would never turn on because everything is kept cooler than before, and by other devices. I say this because my fan is pushed up against my engine now and I do not want to spend the cost to fix it, I would like to just remove it and free up the top end power it drains, moreover, it is not really hurting anything being so close, it has not cut the belts of pullies or anything like that, I justdon't want to pay to have it pulled back, all that jazz

[Ashkan's C280]

i just bought the fan switch and 79c stat, hopefully this will run cool enough where I can keep my car cool and get rid of that mech fan, I know speedy benz took his off without any of this and had no problems, hopefully i can cover all my bases with this, i really hope this will be an easy install, I rather not pay 50 bucks for someone to do a 20 min job

[Rey99C280]

Originally posted by jnenad16
change the thermostat first, then observe your new operating temps, and then install the thermoswitch and set it few degrees above the freeway temps.

nenad

This lower temp thermostat, will this work for my 99 C280. I have a V6 2.8 Engine.

I also don't have auxillary fans. I only have one fan(electric) behind the radiator with a shroud. Is this a problem? Can I add auxillary fans infront of the condensor like some 202's?

[dc36]

has anyone tried this sachs fan clutch? its supposed to be a tropical versioin sound like it may work. http://www.mbworld.org/forums/archive/index.php?t-14207.html

[alphanumeric]

this might be a little O\T but id love to see what people thing...

before my W202 I had a 1992 190e 2.3.. it had 92k miles on it when I bought it. the temp gauge used to read some pretty hot temps some days.. so I did some research on the net and found that MB says this is normal for these engines to run this hot.. and nothing will happen..

well... its a known fact on www.190revolution.net that just about everyone on that forum has had a blown head gasket anywhere from 75k miles and up! alot where between 85-125k miles..

I got this info from a Poll that was on 190revolution.net and I was suprised to see how many people had blown head gaskets... because its a pretty expensive job ($1500 typically) and dont get me started on the transmissions that blow under 100k miles on a mercedes benz..

[Ashkan's C280]

does that relate to the engine running hot? Mercedes says its ok for these engines to run that hot, but its freaking hot, I don't get care what they say, it can't be fine for m engine to run from 98-105c all the time...forever

[Design29]

Having owned a friggin Peugot that caught fire, I am always aware of the temp gauge. Running at 90-100c cannot be good for any car. My car runs at 86 in summer heat with AC on.