My plan

[benzboy]

I know everyone says they are going to do it..... I am going to supercharge my C280, I have found an Eaton M62 on Ebay for a reasonable price, and am going to buy it, hopefully my credit card will forgive me. Then when it gets to NZ I am going to get my mates dad who is an engineer to fab up the pipe work, few questions, what do I need to move/change on existing engine... err thats the only question actually.

Cheers
Tom

[trymonlam]

wow, dude,
u are making it happen.
good for u. keep us here on 202 updated about your progress! i am sure we all are interested.

by the way, i drive a c280 as well.

[benzboy]

Will do, point of no return will be tomorrow when I click the small button on ebay known as Buy now

[Pagz]

Wait wait ......Are you sure you want a SC?...I can sway you towards a turbo instead?:D

where abouts are you going to mount it?

any plans for how the belt system will go?

Nice plate,have you purchased it??,heh i was going to get "ADIKT" or "ADICT"
but thought it might be seen as A-DIC or DIC-T.....LOL so have gone off that idea!...

Paul

[jnenad16]

thats a great idea, but given that your car is right hand drive, are you sure there is enough space for the roots to be fitted next to the engine(by this, I assume you have a 104 engine)? second, the M62, which I believe is off of a 3.8L GM engine, might be to much for your 2.8L, since the roots SC are specifically matched to engine's dispacement. search the site for POWERDYNE and read my posts on supercharging the C280(I6), and see if this is the way you would like to go instead. I would love to see the final product with the eaton(if thats possible), but I would hate to see you or anyone else waste their money on something thats not doable.

nenad

[benzboy]

Hey, been reasearching for about a month on this, the M62 is designed for 2.5 to 4l applications, so would be perfect, there is plenty of room on the exhaust side to mount the kompressor, and use existing route to get to manifold ie over cam cover. Also, have searched POWERDYNE, but cant find the info, would you be able to post a link. An no 23k, I want a supercharger :D and I will buy the p/plate when the system is done, haha

[Pagz]

An no 23k, I want a supercharger
Fair enough:(:D
we'll have to go head to head at meremere somtime!!!:cool:
....if i ever finish mine

[benzboy]

Sounds good, how much power are you aiming for in your soon to be turbo benz?

[Pagz]

its hard to say,maybe 40-50 Hp more without ECU changes,but only a guess...cant wait to get it on the dyno!

the aim is 300+ at the engine,but will need alot more attention to ECU/fuel

[benzboy]

Im hoping to get a 45-50% increase with mine, is this a resonable figure guys? Will eventually source out a 3.2 block also, but with just the blower hoping for about 280-300hp at fly

[Pagz]

hmmm 100hp gain...im not sure how far you will need to go to achieve that....

jnenad16 should be able to shed some light?...

[rollinrealbig]

Eaton M62 ... ive asked a shit load of questions ecause I was thinking of doing that on my C230, but its too big for it.

im thinking of and M45 maybe ... but ill worry about that when i actually understand more of what im about to do LoL.

yea keep me updated on your project I would sure love to see it all work out for you!!! ;)

and 23K (or should i say "23T") - your crazy man! LoL ;) but its cool to see ppl doing that on 202's.

[c280nz]

need bigger injectors and need to run a additional piggyback computer, say like an afc apexi like 23k has got.
you will need around 300cc injectors.
you will need to do some air flow calculations to figure out what pully ratio you will need to flow sufficient air.
need custom pullies most probebly.
will most likely have to seriously look at if your tranny will be up to the task.
the m104 block 2.8ltr, is good up to around 300hp under FI with correct tuning and ignition retard, which you will most probebely do using your ignition retard dial (hopefully its enough)
i have a few pictures of supercharged m104 but hosting pictures is so complicated.
i also have an excel spread sheet used to calculate fueling at 5.5psi on a supercharged m104 280 with an apexi, so if your struggling let me know, and ill either email you or talk on the phone

[rollinrealbig]

ok,

so i will need:

piggy computer

pulleys

eaton m45

300cc injectors

intake piping

IC (???)

exhaust (???)

thats alot of bank - but its a mercedes so i better get used to it from the start.

I have an auto tranny (5-speed model) will that handle all those upgrades ?


... Give me some sites on where this stuff can be bought.

[c280nz]

heres some pics i found i had already posted up on another supercharging post
http://home.online.no/~torflen/mbk1.jpg
http://home.online.no/~torflen/mbk2.jpg http://home.online.no/~torflen/mbk3.jpg http://home.online.no/~torflen/mbk4.jpg http://home.online.no/~torflen/mbk5.jpg

[rollinrealbig]

so you have to convert your TB all the way over there ?

[c280nz]

i was talking about a c280, not sure bout a 2.3l. maby use a 23k engine setup

[rollinrealbig]

yea that would be more simple,

but where can i get all the stuff i need ...


like pullies, injectors, piggybank CP ? ? ?

[benzboy]

Those pics are that basis for my plan, very similar setup in mind, that is an Eaton m62 on that setup

[jnenad16]

Originally posted by benzboy
Hey, been reasearching for about a month on this, the M62 is designed for 2.5 to 4l applications, so would be perfect, there is plenty of room on the exhaust side to mount the kompressor, and use existing route to get to manifold ie over cam cover. Also, have searched POWERDYNE, but cant find the info, would you be able to post a link. An no 23k, I want a supercharger :D and I will buy the p/plate when the system is done, haha
http://www.club202.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5714&highlight=powerdyne
http://www.club202.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6182&highlight=powerdyne

nenad

[trymonlam]

hmm...
nenad doesn't even run his 202 anymore but he's such a great help on here.
the forum should give him a title.
sorry for being off topic.

[benzboy]

Cheers for the info nenad, must say that powerdyne does look good, but its kinda pricy... got any pics of your bimmers engine bay.

Cheers
Tom

[jnenad16]

thank you guys, I wish the admin notices my contibutions and promotes me to a mod status. either way, I am happy when I can help someone out. sorry, I dont have any pics of my bimmer anymore.

nenad

[Abuimad]

Originally posted by jnenad16
thank you guys, I wish the admin notices my contibutions and promotes me to a mod status.

nenad

start a thread and a poll about this..im sure it will help
i know what im voting, its ur countless replies to my questions that made me have an idea of ppl here are talking about
sry for the off topic post yo and good luck in supercharging,

[benzboy]

Update: I now am the proud owner of an eaton M62, expect to get it in 10 days or so.

[Abuimad]

so u checked and it will definetly work
well let me b the first of congratulating u.now what...when r u gonna install and did u figure out the complete process ?
and how much is the end project gonna cost

[benzboy]

Only thing that i havent completely sorted is belt design, but will be much easier when its acutally over here, I am going for 300cc injectors, and I have worked out the placement of the pipework, the engineer that I am using will be able to more accuratly figure it out.

[c280nz]

your second link their nenad is probebly the best topic on here :)
what ecu are you thinking benzboy?

what i will use (pritty cheap option) apexi afc, and will also get a a/r meter for basic tuning to start with + dyno in palmie north. then set it up for the first map lower than 5psi with a boost switch to change to the second map at 5-7psi (integrated instead of the throttle position switch) running 300cc injectors, a rising rate fpr which raises in presure up to around 5psi and also run a set regulator (aswell) to limit the top pressure. but this is dependant on what ratio fpr i get.
we will hopefully be able to get a way with our stock ignitior retarded, but if not enough i have another idea to use also, similar to what they use on turbo hondas

i will be heading fi with a turbo (most probebly t3/t4 or straight t4) also when i get a bit a money saved.
i already have all my parts sorted on what i need, and a fabricator mate who is keen to make me the exhaust mani which to me seems the hardest job,
i will start buying after nys cos if i spend my money now i may run out when i go away for holiday :(

sorry for my big rant

[benzboy]

No worries about the rant, haha, c280nz you have PM, and i will probably go with apexi afc aswell

[Pagz]

so you've taken the plunge huh!,i saw the one on ebay!...be prepared for a big project...its always bigger than you first expect!!!:cool:
great to see more FI work going on!,especially local!...

those pics are interesting...the intake is in that little boxed off part of the bay,must have cut-outs somewhere to feed it air..possibly the rubber seals around that back area of the bonnet are removed.

hmmm it doesnt run an IC....nor does it run a buypass setup due to the TB being relocated,you maybe fairly limited to pressure without an IC especially with the roots SC...any numbers on the efficiency of the M62?

Any plans for IC?,I wonder how the system would run with the TB being so far away if you did run an IC!?!?!

Hmmm...no MASS on that car either,so does it run a full new mapped ECU with new relocated sensors?

also i wonder what happens when you snap the TB shut at high RPM,there would be massive vaccum between the TB and SC...maybe they keep it slightly more open than usual under throttle lift off,but then theres idle issues!?!?

Im very interested....you'll have to give me a full run through when your finished;)!!!

[Pagz]

Originally posted by rollinrealbig
so you have to convert your TB all the way over there ?

shifting the TB over to the inlet side of the TB does away with the need for a bypass system...
i think one off the reasons MB uses the bypass system is for economy...there is also implications in having the TB along way from the manifold.

if you were to SC yours,it maybe best to find a second hand 230K engine and drop it in along with the wiring and ECU .

[benzboy]

Yeah, was wondering about the throttle body, should I reloacte it, or just run a bypass system? And that one does have an ic, but its a watercooled one, and it has standalone engine management.

[Pagz]

Originally posted by c280nz
need bigger injectors and need to run a additional piggyback computer, say like an afc apexi like 23k has got.
you will need around 300cc injectors.
you will need to do some air flow calculations to figure out what pully ratio you will need to flow sufficient air.
need custom pullies most probebly.
will most likely have to seriously look at if your tranny will be up to the task.
the m104 block 2.8ltr, is good up to around 300hp under FI with correct tuning and ignition retard, which you will most probebely do using your ignition retard dial (hopefully its enough)
i have a few pictures of supercharged m104 but hosting pictures is so complicated.
i also have an excel spread sheet used to calculate fueling at 5.5psi on a supercharged m104 280 with an apexi, so if your struggling let me know, and ill either email you or talk on the phone

hey logan!,
actually im not running any fuel or ECU changing devices,and wont be in the initial stage...thats one of the benifits of modding a OEM FI car!...iv been told buy the owner of another turbo 230K that i should get around the 8-9 mark with out changes i hope.

hmmm sounds like turbo on the horizon for you also!,maybe three FI NZ 202...wicked:cool:

[Pagz]

Originally posted by benzboy
Yeah, was wondering about the throttle body, should I reloacte it, or just run a bypass system? And that one does have an ic, but its a watercooled one, and it has standalone engine management.

hmmm for W/C there should be a visible water in/out between the SC and intake...is it under the intake mainfold?

damn there must have been a few grand in engine tuning,not to mention the cost of the ECU and sensors!!...

[benzboy]

Pretty sure its under manifold, do you reckon I whould move TB, it would be much easier if I didnt methinks.

[Pagz]

yeh it sounds like big work shifting it...,I would say leave it where it is and install a regular BOV/bypass...

then theres also the issue of your MASS sensor...does it reside on the intake or pressure side of the SC?,i would think it should be on the pressure side to calculate true air temp/flow/mass,but i saw a pic of a turbo 202 that had it on the turbo inlet!...must have had a full new ECU then i guess?!?!...

[benzboy]

I was gonna mount it on pressure side... would make sense wouldnt it, wouldnt run too well on inlet side I wouldnt have thought.... easier to mount on pressure side as space is a wee bit of a premium in that engine bay.

Thinking about using this: Clicky (http://www.apexi-usa.com/product_electronics_detail.asp?id=202&pageNum=1) for my fuel editing, comments?

[c280nz]

put map sensor on intake side, unless you change to a different boost sencing map sensor like a subie one or something.

[Pagz]

So i guess the 230K has a different Mass to the N/A models?,maybe to keep tolerances close for accuracy reasons...

hey benzboy,
wish i could tell you if the AFC would work but find myself asking myself hundreds of questions...
-is it compatable with the voltage our Mass sensors run?
-how much compensation will you need for larger injectors(if any) and will the AFC have sufficient maps to provide accuracy under all conditions?
-will there be issues with A/F under part throttle/cruise condition?

hmmm wish i knew more about FI on an N/A car,i know honda uses volumetric flow instead of mass,thus needing a sensor like the subie one c280nz mentioned when adding FI....
i would have thought using our Mass sensor inline would be the best way as you get a true mass calculation...hmmm:confused:

Its all to much for me...you'll have to tell me how you did it after;)

[c280nz]

23k i think you are correct that your car should have a different sensor to the na version.
my and benzy boys cars have hot wireair flow meter which works on 0-5v im lead to beleive.
something worth looking at for the ecu which i am also looking at
= www.mapecu.co.nz
should work in our cars and gives a greater range of tunability.
i would reccomend also geting a good quality a/r ratio meter to keep and eye on a/r ratios.
rule of thumb=
Air/Fuel Ratio Limits
6.0:1 Rich run limit
9.0:1 Low power, black smoke
11.5:1 Rich best torque at WOT
12.5:1 Safe best power at WOT
13.2:1 Lean best torque at WOT
14.7:1 Chemically ideal
15.5:1 Lean light load, part throttle
16.2:1 Best economy, part throttle
18-22:1 Lean run limit

(and benzy boy il get u that email as soon as i get a chance to gather all the info i have into a txt doc and send it)
i also have a email addy of a guy with a supercharged m104 who used an apexi that i have been in contact with and is very helpful

[Pagz]

I was at turbo vehicles the other day inquiring about Motec ECU's,i had a look at an accurate motec A/F meter....turns out to be worth thousands...

logan,do you know where to get a decent meter/sensor that wont cost big time?

[c280nz]

hmmm shit.
um will look into that, maby off trademe, a mate of myne used to work at a dyno shop and was talking about borrowing some flash lammbda one for tuning, i will look around

[Pagz]

yeh mang that stuff is expensive...iv been told to stay away from A/F meters that use the stock sensors...

heres a link i found to a US site,man it an't cheap,the LM-1 would be my most likely choice!
http://www.injector.com/motecplm.php

[c280nz]

i dont think i will step it up that far paul.
i think im far to crude for the need for that sort of accuracy, and unless you are planning stand alone or a very accurate piggyback that sort of accuracy will be un-neccesary as for example those apexi's have a limited tuning points? is it 500 or 200 rpm adjustments? im just gona get the best quality i can for a god price and aim for around 12.5:1 .

and yes i am the first to admit i really am a bush mechanic :D

[Pagz]

Originally posted by c280nz

and yes i am the first to admit i really am a bush mechanic :D

LOL:D

[benzboy]

200rpm adjustments, and im not goin for blindingly accurate either, go the bush mechanics with german cars :D

[c280nz]

one of us kiwis should buy these:
this is exactly what i would buy both of these if only they had come available in like a month time, but im too poor $ right now :(
but i beleive both of these would be perfect for you or me benzboy! preferably you if you can afford right now

lambda link a/r meter, not super accurate but would be enough to ensure you wouldnt melt a piston or anything dramatic
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Performance/Electronics/auction-43495941.htm

and one of those ecus i was talking about
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Performance/Electronics/auction-43285020.htm

damn i wish i could buy this shit :(

[Pagz]

Originally posted by c280nz
one of us kiwis should buy these:
this is exactly what i would buy both of these if only they had come available in like a month time, but im too poor $ right now :(
but i beleive both of these would be perfect for you or me benzboy! preferably you if you can afford right now

lambda link a/r meter, not super accurate but would be enough to ensure you wouldnt melt a piston or anything dramatic
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Performance/Electronics/auction-43495941.htm

and one of those ecus i was talking about
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Performance/Electronics/auction-43285020.htm

damn i wish i could buy this shit :(

hey logan have you found a Lambda sensor?any idea on cost?

[c280nz]

um ask the guy on the top auction i linked to, he sells ecus etc.
that one uses the stock sensor or an aftermarket sensor.
i think the lambda sensors are expensive like you say, i think i will use my stock sensors, but i havent talked to the tuning guy yet or anything to ask him

[Pagz]

Updates benzboy???;)

[benzboy]

Update:
Received the Supercharger in the mail yesterday, looks to be in very good condition, car is going into panel beaters today, so the project will start after I get it back

[Under Pressure]

Originally posted by benzboy
Update:
Received the Supercharger in the mail yesterday, looks to be in very good condition, car is going into panel beaters today, so the project will start after I get it back

You are serious about this then. I guess I better tune into this thread and see how it develops. You're at the point of no return now with us Club202'ers! :p :bandit:

[SLAMMED_C]

I hope you keep us all up to date on progress.. with PICS!!!
this should be interesting!