C55 W202 estate - 1 of 7 factory conversion

[tk69]

Yep, I'm lucky enough to have been offered one of these by my friend. Started life as a C43 in '99, the engine then junked without turning over and the 5.5 dropped in. He picked the car up from AMG himself and has owned until now 110k miles. As far as I know it's a pretty rare car and obviously given the milage and the car's life I'd love to know what I can expect would need replacing and what would be a sensible way of upgrading those components likely to fail. Can anyone help me out here? I've searched the forum and can't find any references to factory W202 C55's. The car still drives well, it feels pretty tight, thouhg I suspect the gearbox may be on the way out (what are my options here?). The engine still pulls magnificently, but the twin exhausts have been damaged slightly in a knock. Can someone recommend a replacement? Any major engine maintenance in store for me soon?

Many thanks...

[vbrock1137]

Mmmm, drool...love the 202 estates, wish they shipped 'em over here.

This car was posted a little while back...factory c55:

http://www.club202.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8365

Are you saying yours is 1 of 7 factory c55 estates, or w202 in general?

[c55m8o]

tk69, I think I love you ... did I say that out loud? :p ;)

Kidding aside, I really envy you. That would be my ideal chariot. I've done what I can with the sedan tho (be sure to click the Speedybenz Custom Suspension link in my sig... ;) ).

Welcome to the club! Hope to see you around a good deal. This is a great introductory 1st post of yours.

Regarding your questions, unfortunately, I'm sure I have more questions for you then I think I can answer of yours... such as do you still have the stock AMG rear end with 3.07:1 gearing, or was that upgraded too to the same rear-end the C55s shared with the E55 of that era, with the 2.82:1 gearing (or there abouts) ? ...and you mention dual exhaust... is that full dual all the way from front to back, or up to the resonator after which it goes to a single pipe?

a few things come to mind regarding your query...

(you're miles there, not Kilometers, correct?) Your milage is a bit over the milage on my Chassis (73K miles). My engine has about 40K miles less. The one things I'd recommend =highly= is to make sure:

a) your motor mounts are solid and strong. Mine were changed when I dropped in my 5.4L motor, and it's incredible how that changed and corrected the character of the car. While I was questioning putting money into a car I thought had become "tired and shakey", the new motor mounts completely negated that concern.

b) that you have a good MAF [a.k.a. MAS]. Some call it a 50K (mile) item. That too has incredible and far reaching effect to the performance and character of the car. Everything from slugish throttle response, and lack of peddle sensetivity in the low to mid RPM range, to correcting for idle roughness, engine stalling, and even corrects for some transmission shifting problems as well. (I'm not providing details on the nature of problems seen for brevity; a search will return a lot of details ... it did all these for me).

c) I was hearing some rattles while driving that I thought were interior/body noises, a result of +70K miles of potholes and general road wear. Low and behold, upon installing the speedybenz suspension kit, the interior is silent! Must have been the shocks (and springs?)! (well, the sunroof and sunroof sunshade sometimes makes noize)

100% of the 5.4L engine ancillarys from say a W210 E55 are the same as was used on the 4.3L, so any problems seen on them or the stock 4.3L C43s would be relevant.

Nice to meet you,
Steve

[Ashkan's C280]

here are some items you might want to think about, i don't know what has or has not been done, but this would be some things I would do to make sure it was running well

1. check lower control arm bushings
2. check mas
3. check plugs and wires
4. tranny fluid change
5. check fuel line and filter
6. oil change
7. check diff for leaks, and change that fluid
8. coolant flush
9. check o2 sensors
10. check motor mounts

[tk69]

Thanks for the warm welcome guys. I've done a little bit more research on the car, so I thought I would share this.

As far as I can workout the car is 1 of 7 C55 cars built by AMG. It is difficult to confirm this though as the cars were never give their own model designation, i.e. they were built from C43 chassis. As for the number of estates in existence, I think there only 3 of the 7 were estates, so the car's pretty rare.

Besides putting in a 5.4 litre engine, AMG also tweaked a few other things that the C43 didn't get. The suspension is a little different. The driveline gains quite a few changes, for instance most of it is similar to the CLK55 (bigger transmission pumps, improved transmission program, beefier 2.82 rear end, hubs and half shafts from R129 SL, etc.). According to MB mechanics the quoted 347bhp output is very conservative and is more like the 375bhp that the E55 was qoted at. That probably explains why I have seen an indicated 190mph on the speedo!
As far as going to a 3.07 rear end, whilst I see why you would like it as it will help with acceleration, I believe it may be more detrimental in that wheelspin will be much more of a problem and hence the reason MB went with it (even with the 275 section tyres). Whilst it doesn't provide the extreme 0-60 times you would expect from the 55, it does allow a great range at higher speeds.

So, things I am considering doing when getting the car;
The engine mounts were changed at the last service - cost £4500!

1) replace the suspension components - (speedy-benz? will your C43 set work with this estate C55? what details would you need to know?
2) engine overhaul and stage 2 work
3) New MAS
4) crystal front lights and indicators
5) Recondition the alloys
6) New exhaust - any pointers? something not too loud.

Does the car have an LSD? Can this be retro-fitted?
Does anyone know of good AMG specialists in South-East England?

Cheers

Tom

[c55m8o]

Originally posted by tk69
-The engine mounts were changed at the last service - cost £4500!
-Does the car have an LSD? Can this be retro-fitted?

Regarding the 2nd item, yes, from Kleemann. Speedybenz already has it installed. The racing shop I use is having some difficulty getting it from his connection, else mine would be installed already too.

Regarding the 1st item ... OMG! :eek: You didn't accidentally add an additional "0" did you? I hope that came with the most incredible massage you ever had complete with happy ending and all while they served you the rarest of caviar ... etc... again, :eek:

I was only asking about the rear as the entire drivetrain difference is what keeps me from putting a "55" badge on my car, and was wondering if that difference was maintained by AMG when they did retrofits ... which I see it is. ;)

Me, given one's car's performance is usually gagued by how quickly you can get to the other side of the intersection after the light turns green, I'm even thinking about going to shorter gearing to maximize both 0-60 and 1/4 mile performance. However I entirely understand the point you are making. I wish a ride through a chunnel plus a little more exposed me to the boundless topend driving experience as it does to you... :D

thanx for the add'l info. There's a "How to contact speedybenz" sticky post in the Suspension forum, so you can ask him directly. There isn't a question in my mind about the front suspension. I would expect the rear suspension shock connection's point to the body of the Estate to be the same as the sedan, so would expect the answer to be a yes.

[tk69]

Yeah I know, unbelievable price, fortunately I don't own the car yet, so not my bill... This was for 100k mile service, and initally was going to be £500, then they found that the mounts needed replacing. Is this another case of rip-off MB servicing? Makes me want to look for alternative sources for servicing the car once I take ownership. How much do you think he should have been charged?

Onto the LSD, I have sent an email to Quaife asking whether this is something they can do for me. I presume they must have done one for an E/CLK 55. I'll let you know. I'm under the impression these may be slightly better than the Kleeman item, also the Kleeman might be quite difficult to buy/fit, whereas Quaife are just down the road for me. Perhaps I'll ask Speedy-benz his thoughts on this as well as the suspension.


Anything else I should tackle whilst doing the LSD conversion???

Tom

[Renn 208]

Tom welcome to the forums. Your car does indeed sound like a rare treat. And I expect to see pictures ASAP!

In any case, I'd like to offer what may not be a popular opinion, however, it's one that you may want to consider. Given the history and provenance of the car, I might suggest that you do without the aftermarket add-ons for the car.

The path that you are considering is the same one I would consider to improve the performace of your car. However, the rarity and originallity of the car is part of its appeal. If you have specific performance or even cosmetic needs, perhaps you can persue AMG Manufaktur directly? Affalterbach is not an unreasonable distance from London.

As it is an original AMG special, you should have access to parts and specialists that are not available to the majority of the DIY crowd. I'm sure that it may not be the best bang for your buck to have the car worked on in Affalterbach, but keeping modifications "in the family" would only make the car's story more interesting.

If nothing else, give them a call and explain your needs. I've found the folks over there to be very willing to go the extra mile for their customers, and their fit and finish simply can not be matched by outside specialists. Your car is already a bespoke AMG, and you might wish to keep it that way.

+49 (0) 7144/3020

[tk69]

Hi Renn,

you've most definately got a point there and it is something that I have been considering. I do not want to mod the car visually at all, however, considering that certain items should surely need to be replaced soon (suspension & exhaust (due to damage) in particular) then enhancing the components seems to be an ideal time to do this. In particular I feel the car really should have (and should have been born with) an LSD. Is this something that AMG would do for me do you think? If they make these items why did they never put them on a 'special'?
In the case of the suspension, do you think that something such as speedybenz's conversion would improve things over the oem items? I was under the impression they would. In any case I can always keep the original components for any futre requirement, though I intend to keep the car for a long time... I love it.
Perhaps it would be good to stick with the original AMG exhaust system, again though I imagine that I could increase the performance at reduced cost?

I appreciate any thoughts you have on this car and will get the pics soon......

[Renn 208]

Speedybenz's suspension package would certainly be leaps and bounds over any "conventional" suspension setup.

The suggestion that I'm making is that AMG is fully capable of fulfilling every automotive fantasy. You just have to ask. LSD options are on the regular Manfaktur price list, and I've seen a number of vehicles that have "options" that are not on any price list. If you wonder why your car is configured the way it is...it's probably because that's what the first owner specified. Perhaps there isn't an LSD just because they never asked for one.

I think that there's a myth out there that you have to go to Brabus, Kleemann etc, to get certain performance options out of your car, but to those who seek it out, there are some pretty wild creations that have come out of AMG. Only your imagination and your wallet limit what's possible.

I'm a huge advocate of DIY, but your car is a special case.

[c55m8o]

Originally posted by tk69
Yeah I know, unbelievable price, fortunately I don't own the car yet, so not my bill... This was for 100k mile service, and initally was going to be £500, then they found that the mounts needed replacing. Is this another case of rip-off MB servicing? Makes me want to look for alternative sources for servicing the car once I take ownership. How much do you think he should have been charged? Regarding the mounts, good to hear you're not eating the cost. I thought MB WIS gave job time (I know it sometimes does) and wanted to give you the actual time MB says it should take. But it wasn't included in the motor-mount page I found ... I don't doubt it's in there, WIS is just too difficult to navigate to find things easily. Anyway, I'll thus approximate....

If the entire engine can be taken out and put back in in about 12 hours, with oodles and oodles of more components disconnected and reconnected, I gotta figure the motor mount alone is under an 8 hour job. Even @ $100/hr that's under $1K (USD) with parts.

Below is the job @ a high level from MB WIS. Many steps can be drilled into for added detail within WIS, but that isn't necessary for this discussion. You can click each image for the maxi-rez version of each pic to actually read it ; scroll down to the 'Get Original Uploaded Photo' link under each image @ fotki's site. (Can't link to all the images on all the hosts - some have security, some don't)

...the job should be done in 1 day w/o question... Looks like that stealership had a good day @ £4500 ... previous owner should exact revenge on them... ;)


http://images6.fotki.com/v93/photos/2/296054/2953276/ReplacingtheMotorMounts_Page_1-vi.jpg (http://public.fotki.com/m8o/kar_krazy/shop_pix/mb_wis_replacing.html)

http://images12.fotki.com/v2/photos/2/296054/2953276/ReplacingtheMotorMounts_Page_2-vi.jpg (http://public.fotki.com/m8o/kar_krazy/shop_pix/mb_wis_replacing-1.html)

http://images15.fotki.com/v260/photos/2/296054/2953276/ReplacingtheMotorMounts_Page_3-vi.jpg (http://public.fotki.com/m8o/kar_krazy/shop_pix/mb_wis_replacing-2.html)

[knvs]

does it really take that long to replace motor mounts!?!? I know on my old VW it took 10 min max. All you had to do it drop it from under the car.

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by tk69
Yep, I'm lucky enough to have been offered one of these by my friend. Started life as a C43 in '99, the engine then junked without turning over and the 5.5 dropped in. He picked the car up from AMG himself and has owned until now 110k miles. As far as I know it's a pretty rare car and obviously given the milage and the car's life I'd love to know what I can expect would need replacing and what would be a sensible way of upgrading those components likely to fail. Can anyone help me out here? I've searched the forum and can't find any references to factory W202 C55's. The car still drives well, it feels pretty tight, thouhg I suspect the gearbox may be on the way out (what are my options here?). The engine still pulls magnificently, but the twin exhausts have been damaged slightly in a knock. Can someone recommend a replacement? Any major engine maintenance in store for me soon?

Many thanks... Supersprint will have the exhaust replacement for your car! Cats,midpipe ,and muffler.Eissenman would be the other company but I think their muffler is too damn loud! http://www.supersprintna.com/category-exec/category_id/139/


http://www.supersprint.com/homeuk.htm

Both sites even show headers for the W210 E55but they would have to be modded to fit in the W202 body.I like they're W210 E55 muffler better as well.

[tk69]

Hi everyone, thanks again for the input. Got some photos to post of the 55. Anyone know how I can do that?

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by tk69
Hi everyone, thanks again for the input. Got some photos to post of the 55. Anyone know how I can do that? www.imageshack.us It's a free pic hosting site.It's very good!

[tk69]

ok, here they are. As I said, she needs a bit of love.

http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc000249ku.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc000205uq.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc000215qj.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc000226sx.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc000231nc.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc000254ir.jpg

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by tk69

According to MB mechanics the quoted 347bhp output is very conservative and is more like the 375bhp that the E55 was qoted at. That probably explains why I have seen an indicated 190mph on the speedo!
I would dyno the car to find out for sure.

Mercedes Enthusiast magazine has several writeups on the W202C55 and they state 347-362bhp. Some C55's will put out more bhp's than others and vice versa. 190mph is a little optimistic. Get the car dynoes I'd love to see what #'s you get. very nice car by the way and Welcome to Clubw202!

[Renn 208]

ooooooooh, at some point you need to do all of us a favor and pull those wheels off and get part numbers from them.

The "SL 2-pc." style was once a highly coveted item on w202s, but the only way it was achieved in the past was via replicas or by shaving of the offset. I'm dying to know what kind of fitment AMG has used on your car, and if there are part numbers for those wheels.

[thmsshaun]

Drool. :cool:

Please share the car with us on mbclub.co.uk.

As for the exhaust keep it standard and get a new amg pipe. Or see what http://www.mercedesperformance.co.uk/ have to offer.

[AMGEEEE]

could those wheels be 19's?

[Abuimad]

if u need ne help in posting the pics, email me the pics and ill post them for u...;)
it will be my pleasure to help the owner of such a sweet and desired car...
welcome to the family

[Renn 208]

Originally posted by AMGEEEE
could those wheels be 19's?

If the car is anything like its contemporaries, I'd say that the wheels are 18s