water feed for turbo...

[Pagz]

Im trying to figure out which is the best place to feed and return the water for the turbo??...

i have tapped between the pump and the thermostat for the return,and hope to use the block drain plug for the feed...

JasonH,
if we could pickup where we left off in jstrats thread?

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_124_full.jpg
lol missed the C in "exchanger":rolleyes:

-orange is the air heating
-blue/pink is path taken when engine is up to temp
-pink is path taken while engine warms up

any addition advice would be great!

Paul

[NISMOPOWERED]

What about the coolant overflow? Or I have seen the water outlets drilled and tapped.

[Pagz]

Originally posted by NISMOPOWERED
What about the coolant overflow? Or I have seen the water outlets drilled and tapped.

hmmm,i did miss out the overflow in the drawing,its of little help though as its only under pressure from expansion and heat...

where you tap the system depends entirly on the best potential difference in pressure...so if i tap at the block drain plug and return to the front of the pump....will there be enough restriction in the block system to allow water to flow the parallel circuit through the turbo?...

JasonH has mentioned he may have feed it from the front of the pump and returned to the reservor/expansion tank...but im not sure how that works?...

Paul

[NISMOPOWERED]

I meant the expansion tank sorry. Its a flow thru system.

[Pagz]

Originally posted by NISMOPOWERED
I meant the expansion tank sorry. Its a flow thru system.

can you explain it alittle more?(flow through system)
thanks

[NISMOPOWERED]

Meaning there is always a flow of water thru the tank. alot of cars just use it as an overflow. On our cars its always flowing.

[Pagz]

Originally posted by NISMOPOWERED
Meaning there is always a flow of water thru the tank. alot of cars just use it as an overflow. On our cars its always flowing.

hey could you point out which way the water flows?,thanks

[NISMOPOWERED]

That I cant, but a little playing around will tell you. Remove one hose put it in a bucket. Put a hose on the nipple and put that in a bucket and see which on fills up!

[Pagz]

hey thanks...

after i drew a simplified version of the system it becomes alittle more obviouse how it will work...how much flow there is will depend on the resistance of the main flow path vs the new one...

both paths work in parallel to the main path,though the path to the tank maybe slightly more restrictive due to longer path

also the water returning will be quit hot so maybe to the tank is the better way because water then heads back through a small portion of the radiator before the pump...?

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_125_full.jpg

[NISMOPOWERED]

either way will work.

[RemoLexi]

sorry for going so off-topic in the other thread.

[Pagz]

Thats ok!,as you can see in the top pic,the only place to feed the turbo is from the drain plug under the manifold....the return is debatable...the best potential difference thus best flow will occur if you return as close as possible to the left side of the pump...i used the A/C heat exchanger return for mine...but i also shifted where the electric pump was so it now returns closer to the radiator...this gave me more room in the manifold area.

you could return to the expansion tank...but im not sure on the pros and cons...it is a longer path so may have less potential flow...but then again it may cool better...i may try this way and see next time.

[Pagz]

you could also return to the right of the pump...just make sure its either on the pump or between the pump and thermostat,so when the thermostat switches it doesnt effect flow.

[RemoLexi]

ahh .. I see so if I return it in an area where a little force is moving the flow - the water from the turbo would leave faster .

now feeding it - from a drian plug under the manifold ? so I would remove the old plug, tap a new plug and reinstall it ? im assuming the plug is about 2 inches diameter and is coated right ? (goldish color?) yea that would be much easier as I wouldnt have all these hoses going from one place to another.

another question, where do i buy the hoses and the fittings ? .. ive never been able to find that kind of stuff :(

[Pagz]

Correct...Just like electricity(almost)...for it to flow you need a positive and a negative....now apply that to the cooling system given the two inlets either side of the pump are negative and the the water jacket entering the block behind the pump is the positive...
the closest tap to the positive is the block drain,and the clostest negative are the two pipes either side of the pump...
there is a possibility that plumbing the return to the expansion tank may cool the water from the turbo alittle more given it needs to travel through a small part of the radiator first before returning to the pump...but that may be at the cost of flow due to a longer path....im really not sure.

the drain plug looks like you can attach a pipe to it for better drainage!?...its about ~22mm,you wont need to tap anything...just find a local "Aeroquip" or "earls hoses" supplier...any decent one will have every fitting imaginable for the job...if i find time this weekend i will get a couple of pics of the fittings i used!...i gotta go have a cold showa...its frickn hot and its almost 9pm,plus the gurl is bitchin im still on the comp lol ceo tommorrow;)

[RemoLexi]

ok I had the car on a lift today, I located the block drain bung your talking about yes its about a 22mm and has a little winky spicking out, then the oil bung I can barly see but im sure its the 1" Hex bolt right ? it has an aluminuim washer too ?

so this is what ill do,

Oil feed = hex bolt atop of the dipstick, and drains back to the sump.

Water feed = block drain plug, and I still havnt decided the exact location of the water return area, you say either right before the pump or after it but I can seem to exactly pin-point a good location, so I guess Ill wait for you to come up with something and ill follow the plan. :)

now, back to the Oil temp/press. sensers, where can i get the block of aluminium and those two sensers ?

[RemoLexi]

Hmm went to dealer today to buy those two plugs water/oil I need to see the threads on them so I can buy exact part that will work, dealer told my one was a breather of some sort and the Hex key bolt was for water - he told me the only oil drain is out of the pan :(

23K is it possible for you to get pictures of the exact location/parts ? Thanks!

[Pagz]

LOL...man never go to a MB dealer,they have no idea;)

I have the fittings at home,i will get the specs and pics for you.
i cannot take pictures as the car is an hour away at the fabricators.

The 6mm allen key/hex key which ever you like to call it is the oil feed.
The 22mm bung with the hose attachment is the block coolant drain.

the billet sensor mount you see is completely custom.

[RemoLexi]

ahh I see, you I dont think the dealer ever had to turbocharge an M111 before so I expect him not to know but why try to make an ass out of me ? ya he was too lazy to even see if he had those parts in stock :mad:

yea if you can please get pictures of those two plugs that would be awesome.

so what was the price range for the custom sensor mount ?
Im going to need something similar just dont even know where to begin or which sensers to buy . ?

[Pagz]

heres a pic of the two fittings i used on the block...the left is coolant and on the right is oil,they both require alloy washers to seal against the block.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_276_full.jpg

Disclaimer..."im fairly sure..."
The coolant fitting is a 18x1.5 with a male -6 fitting.
The oil fitting is a 12x1.5 with a male -4 fitting.

the -4 and -6 fitting end can be changed for many different sizes,but i would say you would use either -3/-4 for the oil and -6 for the coolant.


heres a pic showing how the sensors were installed...to the far right is where the oil is taken from the block,through the sensors and up/over to the turbo...all fittings are -4.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_277_full.jpg


here you can see the 12x1.5 from the block attached to the -4 fitting.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_278_full.jpg


Where the oil feed enters the turbo we tapped and tightly secured a grub screw into the banjo fitting,i then drilled a 1mm hole through the grub screw.
make sure you get a recommendation from your turbo supplier regarding min/max oil pressure needed for the turbo...
i forget what mine should be but will be checking up on it in the next few months.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_279_full.jpg


Heres the coolant lines,the longer went from the block to the turbo and the short one was the return to the coolant pump.
we used high temp silicon/fibreglass covers anywhere near the manifold.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_280_full.jpg


Heres the coolant fitting from the block attached to the -6 fittings.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_282_full.jpg


Heres where i returned to the pump...iv got another pump now and am not sure if i will tap onto the same place again given the difference postion of the turbo this time round...
notice the brass bung on the pump...you could use this as a return...i did but then changed it to the other side hence the brass bung;)
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_281_full.jpg


For reference heres the turbo drain -10 fitting and return pipe to the sump.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_283_full.jpg http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_284_full.jpg

the small stuff really adds up!!!
The fittings iv used are mostly aeroquip,they are alittle pricy but usually have what i want!...there maybe other cheaper ways to plumb your setup.


As for the sensors,they are ordered with DEFI system i purchased...
The sensors i have are boost,water temp,oil temp,oil press and fuel press.
it comprises of the DEFI display,DEFI controller and i added a DEFI boost gauge but have removed it now because im happy with just the display...to have a turbo system you dont have to have all these gauges,but is definatly handy when assessing the system
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_105_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_95_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_96_full.jpg


Im not sure what the billet sensor mount cost because i had two things done at once that time...i think it was around 150-180NZD.


Now,thats 2 hours computer time at 65ph+12.5% = $146.25NZD or $102USD..i take paypal and wire transfer...hahahahah jks:D
happy to help out;)

[RemoLexi]

Thanks so much man i know you have helped me out so much if it wernt for you id probably never have started this!

heres comes another load of my silly questions .. :p

yea the two pieces from the first picture are the ones i need, Ill go harass he dealer some more so he can sell em to me! :D

2nd picture with the sensors and the billet piece - I see it has two allen bolts bolting a cover on it right ? mind taking that off and getting a pic of what the inside of that looks like or ... if not its ok I know what I need just wanted to be positive about things.

all the hoses Ill dig em up from somewhere, yea I know these little bits add up a nice amount of cash!

I was thinking of doing the same thing to the water pump, but im worried about if anything happens to the water pump id have to reweld that and it would be another PITA!

[Pagz]

No problem man!,
the dealer wont have the parts your after,you will need to find a local pipe and fitting supplier specific to race cars etc.

the flat part behind the billet mount is simply a braket to allow me to make use of the mounting holes on the front of the head.

you could always tap onto the radiator hose if you dont wish to weld the pump.

[RemoLexi]

ok, the water pump - Ill use a 'Y' splitter so that both the electric pump and turbo outlet can connect into it - this way i wont have to weld the attachment and anytime my water pump decides to fail I can easily do the same procedure on a new one. :)

just a second ago I unscrewed the oil plug on the engine block like you said and yes there was traces of oil and not coolent - means the dealer was wrong! now, im still wondering if theres good pressure there and I mean why is it all there to begin with ?

I also unscrewed the water drain plug from the engine block - yep the car pee'd all over the floor and green coolent everwhere so yes I know that that is my water feed :)

Now I have my water feed/return figured out and focusing on the sensers, im still not all positivly sure because if i go and buy a senser from another car I may not be able to hook up the gauge to it. :confused:

LOLOL 1st picture - is that a new Valve cover I see ?? post it up come on! :p

[Pagz]

Sounds good!

Im not totally sure why the oil bung is there,but im leaning towards two reasons...MB knew we would never be happy with OEM performance!;)...or its used to test oil pressure!..either way it will give you the oil you need.

Yep that coolant sure goes everywhere when you undo the drain lol

As for the gauges you would be best to buy them as a kit with the sensor or prob...almost every gauge comes with the correct sensor if it requires it.


hahaha nice spotting...yes that is the new valve cover.. i wasnt going to post that until it was on the engine and things were alittle more complete;)..but anyways heres a few pics...
a suprising amount of work went into it lol,though it doenst look it...
-removed the "kompressor" casting
-removed baffle,drilled and tapped rivits for cap screws to retain it again.
-blank off old vent.
-remove divider inside under new vent(PITA)
-custom billet vent with -10 fittings,fitted to cover with studs and lock nuts...as you really dont want a nut coming of in there;)
-all powder coated except plastic front which is just painted.
-Cap screw bolts replace the OEM,however most had to be cut to correct lengths
-everything inside lock tighted.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_285_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_286_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_287_full.jpg

[RemoLexi]

Looks very nice! but IMO the spark plug begs to be painted a color it can stand out - like a silver ? :)

well, im off to the store in search of those fittings!

[Pagz]

Thanks,yip could have left it silver like it was before...but ive decided Its not ment to stand out..that way when you look in the bay you see all the nice custom bits stand out;)

goodluck with the fittings!,ask if you can return them undamaged if somthing doesnt fit!

[RemoLexi]

yep just picked up the oil fitting! I have a local Tognotti's high performance parts store they had this stuff in stock! :eek:

I bought an oil fitting and a cap for it so that I can install it - and cap it for whens its ready to be used OR cap it when I have to go to stock for emissions testing :bandit:

its a -6 fitting. Blue.

[Pagz]

Yip if there a good shop they will have everything imaginable!!,i use a local buiness called Alert engineering,they do brakes,samco hoses oil coolers and almost any fitting to install these.

So you went with -6 for the oil feed??,pretty big!,i guess it really doesnt matter as you will most likly use a restrictor,though the bigger hose means bigger fittings and less room to work with.

did you get the coolant fitting as well?

was i correct about the tread sizes?

[RemoLexi]

yea I may go anf get the -4 instead then, no biggie they are only like $6 .

yea you are right with all the info so far .. :) awesome!

[Pagz]

oh cool,good to hear....i was a bit iffy about giving you the thread sizes incase you had to drive an hour across town again if i was wrong;)

[RemoLexi]

the thread sizes ... yea about those what I did was removed my stock plug, and searched in a bucket of bolts I have to find an exact bolt with same threads - seconds later a lug bolt (mercedes) has the same exact threads!! so I bolt my oil plug back on the car take tha lug bolt put it in the clerks face and tell him i need an oil fitting with threads this size, 15 minutes and he hands me the fitting and two caps to cap it off. I just bolted it to my engine , installed a new copper gasket and capped it so its ready for the oil inlet hose - you know all these little its and bits take up time too so i may as well get these things done now instead of later !! .. thats why I bought caps to cap it off for now! :)

[Pagz]

Sounds good!,yeh it definatly all takes time!...i must have made at least 30 trips to the fittings shop lol

[RemoLexi]

picked up the water fitting today, they only had a -8 so i had to buy a -6 fitting that goes over the -8.

If I finish the project with under 30 visits ill be lucky. so far the count is 2 :D

[Pagz]

haha goodluck man;)

[RemoLexi]

3 visits. LoL :D