People who installed systems.. help!

[iwhocorrupts]

I bought 5 1/4" speakers for the back doors and I cant get the old ones out? Do I have to take the door panel off?

Also, the mini sub-like speakers behind the headrests.. how do those come out?

[davis449]

Originally posted by iwhocorrupts
I bought 5 1/4" speakers for the back doors and I cant get the old ones out? Do I have to take the door panel off?

Also, the mini sub-like speakers behind the headrests.. how do those come out?

I honestly would just leave those alone, disable them and make sure your 5 1/4's for the rear doors have a good all around range high, low, and mid. Then whatever you have for the front doors make sure it has good midrange and get a good set of tweets for the front and put a good sub or two in the trunk. I would recommend two if disabling the rear speakers. Taking out those rears is a pain in the ass.

[illusionaryline]

Originally posted by davis449
I honestly would just leave those alone, disable them and make sure your 5 1/4's for the rear doors have a good all around range high, low, and mid. Then whatever you have for the front doors make sure it has good midrange and get a good set of tweets for the front and put a good sub or two in the trunk. I would recommend two if disabling the rear speakers. Taking out those rears is a pain in the ass.

i would have to agree, i spent a good few hours just trying to figure out how to remove the speakers, i finally did it but they ended up just being screwed into the metal frame. The rear door speakers just provide fill. Best set up would be splits in the front top end for best quality and a few subs. Depending how often your going to have people in the backseat would determine whether you even bother installing the speakers in the rear doors.

[iwhocorrupts]

K, but how do I uh, get the rear doors off?

[illusionaryline]

from what i can remember when i did mine, remove the speaker grill by unscrewing the screw underneat it, then all i did was pull at the surrounding areas, and loosened the door panel, i didnt find the need to remove the whole thing, instal the speakers and then push the panel back and it should clip back in, its probably easiest to use the current speaker wiring.

[iwhocorrupts]

Did you use theoriginal mounts because from the looks of it, if I take the original speaker out i still wont be able to mount the new one on it since the holes on the new speaker arent on the rim, theyre off to the side of it

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by iwhocorrupts
Did you use theoriginal mounts because from the looks of it, if I take the original speaker out i still wont be able to mount the new one on it since the holes on the new speaker arent on the rim, theyre off to the side of it

Do you have Bose option..?

On my 1997 C36 with Bose option.. I removed the rear speaker with its housing. Then I remove the speaker from the housing and put 6.5" aftermarket midbass on the housing.


Otherwise there is a company that sell the "speaker adapter" only for W202 for the purpose of installing aftermarket speaker.


And I agree with most, I would just leave the rear door speaker alone. The original one is 3.5" midrange. The space is alredy tight for 4" midrange. So try to put 5.25" might be pushing it. (You might end up with custom grill to make it fit).


Regardz,

[illusionaryline]

back doors i removed the original housing and screwed the speaker into the metal with some anti-vibe tape behind it, the front doors i fabricated a spacer and for the back parcel shelf i screwed them straight into the metal, none of my speakers are using the original mounts.

[iwhocorrupts]

The holes dont match up? You just screwed right into the metal?

[illusionaryline]

yeh right into the metal, just make sure u use some anti-vibe tape

[iwhocorrupts]

Illusionary -- can you PM me your AIM SN if you have one, or like if you could email me a picture of the setup because i cant picture how this is gonna work... The speakers are deep theres no way theyre gonna go flush with the metal

[97C28O]

Kind of off topic but will adding a amp and sub to the stock BOSE system need adjusting? I know there is an BOSE amp but i would like to know if you can change the amp and add subs to the stock system...

[iwhocorrupts]

I dont know much about audio, but I think you'd need a new head unit and that would mean youd need to rewire your system then you could do whatever you want

[illusionaryline]

a complete new system maybe the best option however. if you bought an amp that matches the power ratings of the stock speakers you could just do a straight swap, the best way to get a sub is to have a headunit with RCA output, then RCA cable to a monoblock amp. However it is possible on some amps to have highlevel speaker inputs, meaning the signal to power the sub comes from wire going to stock speakers, eliminating the need for RCA's dependant on the model of amp tho. not the best way to do it, RCA's work for better quality and more power.

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by 97C28O
Kind of off topic but will adding a amp and sub to the stock BOSE system need adjusting? I know there is an BOSE amp but i would like to know if you can change the amp and add subs to the stock system...


Originally posted by iwhocorrupts
I dont know much about audio, but I think you'd need a new head unit and that would mean youd need to rewire your system then you could do whatever you want



You should be able to keep stock system and plus additional subwoofer system.
What you need is an ampifier (for these additional subwoofer) that can accept a speaker line input. Or you could get an external electronic crossover that accept speaker line input.

If done this one, basically you will have your stock system intact, plus you will have separate amp for the subwoofer. (which should give you more bass than stock system).



iwhocorrupts, please refrains from giving misinformation.
If you don't know the information please simply say so.



Also if anything I learned from working with car Audio for 8 years I would avoid doing any shortcut and doing hack job by screwing the speaker to the metal door directly. As I have seen many times if not done properly (which 95% of the time) would cause some rust on the areas where the screw penetrated.
The aread behing the door card/door panel will get wet.


An ideal mounting of speaker is off course to be able to mount it flat onto the door metal to avoid any rattling, etc. Hence the OEM uses adapter/speaker bracket for that reason. (this also increases depth clearance for the speaker's magnet as well).

In W210 you could appreciate the presence of rear door midrange, unfortunately it cannot be said the same for W202.
Since W202 interior is fairly small, when upgrading to aftermarket audip components rear door speaker can be omitted, and you could put your aftermarket 5.25" on the rear deck.


The whole purpose for rear speaker is for rear fill, and the goal is to create front staging sounds. With that being said, having the rear fill at the rear door is not providing much benefit vs rear deck mount in W202.


Regardz,

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by illusionaryline
i would have to agree, i spent a good few hours just trying to figure out how to remove the speakers, i finally did it but they ended up just being screwed into the metal frame. The rear door speakers just provide fill. Best set up would be splits in the front top end for best quality and a few subs. Depending how often your going to have people in the backseat would determine whether you even bother installing the speakers in the rear doors.


Are you sure your rear speaker is OEM.

I find it odd that mercedes will screw the rear speaker directly to the metal.

Here in U.S all mercedes speaker are mounted to via speaker bracket/adaper as the mounting surface are not always FLAT.


Iwhocorrupt & davis449 in answering your question,
You would need to remove the rear deck to be able remove the rear deck speaker correctly (I've heard some people were able to remove the rear speaker without removing the rear shelf, in which meant it involves some forcing :) ).
The rear speaker brackets are attached with clips on the rear shelf metal frame.

Once you got the rear shelf out , you could release this clip from inside the trunk these rear speakers should pop-out just like that.

Regardz,

[illusionaryline]

im sorry that was a typo, i meant it took sometime to get the back speakers and their brackets out, then i just screwed the NEW speakers in.. sorry for confusion,

[unHookt]

I have to disagree with many of the points being made here.

First off, I believe that removing the rear door speakers is detrimental to the overall soundstage and quality of sound. Trying to replace the midrange with 2 midranges in the rear deck effectively places the soundstage too far back in the cabin, particularly if you're sitting in the rear seat.

Adding a subwoofer to a stock "regular" or Bose system is quite simple if you tap into the rear deck leads and wire this into your subwoofer amp. The real problem is with getting the bass to "port" into the passenger cabin.

The 202 cabin is so well insulated that little low frequency sound makes it into the cabin without performing additional modifications. Here are a few options:

1. Removing one of the rear mid-basss deck speakers by removing the speaker grill, unscrewing the speaker, and pulling it out. Leaving the speaker off will allow sufficient bass into the cabin unless you're trying to win some SPL contests. (pretty easy)

2. Removing the ski-pass through (if you have this) or using a dremel to cut this space open to allow substantial bass through. Though this lets lots of bass into the cabin, this will definitely depreciate the value of your car and is by some considered to be a hideous modification.

3. Swap out all of the speakers by finding replacements that closely match the existing locations, and making the necessary mods to get them to fit properly. You can use the existing wiring to the speakers from your new amp, and can connect the existing head unit using a line level converter. Getting a new head unit will make AMP install even cleaner and easier, with better results.

There are tons of options, but the bottom line is that the 202 is not as easy to mod ICE-wise as some of the other rides out there.

[1995c280]

i put 5 1/4" in my rear doors but they were a real pain. i took off the speaker braket on the rear doors. it is a 2 piece design for the bose system. then i threw away the front piece. the rear piece which mounts to the door, i took a dremel and made the opening larger so the magnet of the new speaker would fit through and i cut out all the platic tabs behind. they are like bars that go across since the 5 1/4" speaker is alot deeper. it is basically a trial and error procedure. it takes a while but when i got the first side done the other was a breeze. you need to take the door panels off because 5 1/4" wont fit through the small opening in the door panel. then take the speaker mounting plate that was in the box with your new speakers. take a 90 degree or right angle die grinder with a sanding disc and flatten the ridge around the plate so the plate is completely flat. otherwise it will hit the door panel and the door panel won't fit properly. the connect the stock plate with the aftermarket one with screws and then connect the speaker. i then removed my rear seat, c pillars and rear hatch in order to remove all three of the rear deck speakers in order to port the cabin like some1 on here previously mentioned. it made the bass so much louder. then re-installed the seat and deck back into the car. after all said and done, it sounded so clean and well worth the hours i put in the rear

note: i only have the smallest room left behind the speaker to the window (very little room to spare) but it doesn't touch the window when rolled down. i used crossfire sx52 in the rear door. they are 2.34" deep. i think anything deeper than that and it will hit the window.

hope this helps

jason

[benzonline]

I also disagree with removing the rear door speakers and installing something on the back shelf to replace those. Soundstage is wrong then.

When I got my car it had the BOSE system which was decent sounding but needed more of a kick so I decided on a 12" sub in a small enclosure with a 400w amp. I had a shop do it as I didnt want to short circuit something or god knows what....they tapped the rear shelf subs and I needed a HI-LOW converter!

The sound was 10x better and even better....stock system was still intact but if someone didnt look at the deck they would think its some decent aftermarket system installed.

Im also surprised at the output of those small rear door speakers which are 3.5".....they can go hella loud!

[davis449]

Originally posted by unHookt
I have to disagree with many of the points being made here.

First off, I believe that removing the rear door speakers is detrimental to the overall soundstage and quality of sound. Trying to replace the midrange with 2 midranges in the rear deck effectively places the soundstage too far back in the cabin, particularly if you're sitting in the rear seat.

Adding a subwoofer to a stock "regular" or Bose system is quite simple if you tap into the rear deck leads and wire this into your subwoofer amp. The real problem is with getting the bass to "port" into the passenger cabin.

The 202 cabin is so well insulated that little low frequency sound makes it into the cabin without performing additional modifications. Here are a few options:

1. Removing one of the rear mid-basss deck speakers by removing the speaker grill, unscrewing the speaker, and pulling it out. Leaving the speaker off will allow sufficient bass into the cabin unless you're trying to win some SPL contests. (pretty easy)

2. Removing the ski-pass through (if you have this) or using a dremel to cut this space open to allow substantial bass through. Though this lets lots of bass into the cabin, this will definitely depreciate the value of your car and is by some considered to be a hideous modification.

3. Swap out all of the speakers by finding replacements that closely match the existing locations, and making the necessary mods to get them to fit properly. You can use the existing wiring to the speakers from your new amp, and can connect the existing head unit using a line level converter. Getting a new head unit will make AMP install even cleaner and easier, with better results.

There are tons of options, but the bottom line is that the 202 is not as easy to mod ICE-wise as some of the other rides out there.

I guess I should calrify my original response. I think that eliminating the REAR DECK speakers is a good idea, because if you put a sub(s) in the trunk, you're not going to get anything out of them. The rear doors should have good highs and mids. I would put two tens in the rear with good power behind them. The front set should be a component system, ideally, to get the best midrange and high end out of them. Like unHookt said it will put the soundstage too far back.

As for the Bose sub addition one user was asking about, you can go for the tap off the rear deck speakers way and keep your factory head unit and CD changer etc., or you can do what I consider the much better way (if you want better sound) which is to add a new deck, preferably MP3 capable, to the Bose (improves Bose sound drastically) and then RCA the sub to the new deck.

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by benzonline
I also disagree with removing the rear door speakers and installing something on the back shelf to replace those. Soundstage is wrong then.

When I got my car it had the BOSE system which was decent sounding but needed more of a kick so I decided on a 12" sub in a small enclosure with a 400w amp. I had a shop do it as I didnt want to short circuit something or god knows what....they tapped the rear shelf subs and I needed a HI-LOW converter!

The sound was 10x better and even better....stock system was still intact but if someone didnt look at the deck they would think its some decent aftermarket system installed.

Im also surprised at the output of those small rear door speakers which are 3.5".....they can go hella loud!



My Question has you been experimenting..?

I am aware that the Bose system has rear door speaker fitted for the option. That is given their rear deck only contain midbass / midrange.
The rear door contain full-range speaker (3.5 - cone type to produce high note without a tweeter)


Once you upgrade to aftermarket the sounds dispersion is much batter than stock Bose.


I have tried different way to get optimal sound stage. Sitting to low on the foot well on the rear door and it doesn't quite provide the rear fill, hence the rear shelf still contain midrange drivers.

Aftermarket speakers are normally has better efficient and better output level than Bose. (if you ask me BOSE option on our W202 still sound like crap, sound muddy and not clear).


I am giving the original poster an option.
If you want to go all out everything is possible, but then what is the goal and budget.

On my C36 I ran 3 way on the front (a/d/s 1.5" tweeter in the dash", a/d/s 6.5" midbass driver on the door as midbass, and a/d/s 5.25" midbass driver as a midrange on the kickpanel").

On the rear shelf I have a pair of 6.5" a/d/s 2 way integrated component.

And I run IDMAX 10 running 1100 watt on its own amp.

All I can tell you it will blow the BOSE system away from sound stage, clarity, and sound quality.





I tried to experiment on W210 but apparently the rear door fill is more critical with large interior as the rear door sounds seems to be muffled on W202 in terior.


My C36 come with 4 hole on the rear shelf that can house a 6.5: drive with no problem. (My BOSE came with 2 6.5" midrange and 1 6.5" bass unit on the rear deck, and the last hole is not used).

So at the end I still ended up with 2 6.5" holes that provide ample of bass and kicks.


Regardz,

[benzonline]

It is true about the muffled sound especially when sitting in the rear of the car, not only that, I have the fabric/cloth seating which I BELIEVE alters the perceived sound in a car such as a w202 vs the MB-Tex, am I wrong?

[iwhocorrupts]

I got them installed, I just ripped out the whole speaker housing and drilled 4 holes in the frame of the door, and put the speakers in there with anti vib tape (i used weather stripping)

[illusionaryline]

how do they sound?

[iwhocorrupts]

They sound great :) Next is an amp and then a sub or two

[iwhocorrupts]

Btw, illusionary, what size is that speaker you have on your rear deck?

[illusionaryline]

just 250W Pioneer 6inch... work like a dream.

[iwhocorrupts]

How are they wired? original wiring? and was there anything you needed to do besides drill holes?

[illusionaryline]

nah its not original wiring because they run off an alpine amp in the boot just below the speakers, depending on your speaker size you may have to cut away some metal. but other than that just drill the holes

[JDoggery]

These cars are kinda a pain to work with to install aftermarket equipment. I am in the process of ripping out everything and installing a custom set-up with 7in components in the front, 6.5 in the rear door, and 6.5 in the rear deck with either two 10's or 12's, in addition to a center channel. Everything is going to have to be custom mounted. The main headunit is already in place, and it does sound a lot better with the bose than stock. Also, running RCA's to the subs is a lot better than a simple hi-lo off the rear speakers. Hopefully I will have it all done in the next few months.

[iwhocorrupts]

How do you run RCA wiring from the trunk to the head? whats the best route to take?

[1995c280]

go from the deck down the side of the tranny tunnel housing (either side) where the carpet comes upon the interior. i went down the pass side. then under the pass side carpet. it just lifts right up from the rear where the seat mounting bolts are. pull off both door sills plates. run the rca's down the door sills. its a good idea to run a remote wire at this time also so you don't do this process twice. you don't need to run battery and ground wires down the whole car seeing as how our batteries are in the trunk. then unclip your rear seat too make it easy (2 push clip locks - very easy). get a snake or something similiar. anything flexible and skinny will work. electrical tape the rca's and the remote wire to the snake so they don't fall off. then push it from the rear seat to the trunk (very easy to do). they are plenty of other ways, but this is the way i chose.

jason

[OzC36]

I'm in the middle of planning a speaker upgrade to my 1996 C36 stock eight speaker audio system (non-Bose system). I am going to keep it simple and just upgrade the front door and possibly the rear door speakers from the OEMs. I am not planning to touch the dash tweeters or rear deck upside down speakers

If you have lots of bucks to spend, the following would seem to be a very easy solution for the W202. This comes with all the bits and pieces including custom speaker adaptor plates and leads:

http://www.iqcaraudio.com/mercedes/mercedes_W202.htm

If you are a bit short on moola, the DIY option would seem to be the cheapest way by modifying the existing speaker adaptors to your choice of aftermarket speakers:

http://www.mercedesshop.com/Wikka/W202Speaker

If you are a masochist and want change the rear deck speakers, here are the instructions on how to disassemble the rear of your car to gain access (good luck!):

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=4782

For what it is worth, I am going to buy aftermarket speaker adaptors and speaker adaptor leads that are custom made for the W202. This will keep my speaker upgrade simple, clean, neat and hopefully won't overtax my limited skills. Two sources for these adaptor items are:

http://www.nexxia.co.uk/Speaker_adaptors/mercedes_benz.htm

and here:

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=508

When I receive my speaker adaptors, I am going to walk into my local audio store with the adaptors, the OEM basket fitting (from inside the door), and the car door speaker grille and and see for myself what physically fits the new configuration. Crutchfield has given me some guidance on their website as to what speakers they think should fit:

http://www.crutchfield.com/

But a note of caution, Crutchfield had no idea that I even had rear door speakers in my C36, so I take their advice with a pinch of salt. I have done my own research for the rear doors (four inch shallow mount speakers should do the trick, but again we will do the physical fit and function routine to be sure).

[unHookt]

It would be cool if you could let us know what speakers you looked at, what worked and what didn't etc

I think the biggest pain is not knowing what will be able to fit in the doors and everyone having to experiment with this

thanks for the links!

[OzC36]

Crutchfield recommend the following 6.5" speakers for the front door. These are all shallow-mount speakers with "top-mount depth" of less than 2":

1. Boston Acoustics S65RC
2. Pioneer TS-G1641R
3. Pioneer TS-G1640R
4. Kenwood KFC-16605
5. Infinity Reference 6012si

There are another five component speakers they recommend as well which don't interest me. There are obviously many other brands of shallow mount 6.5" speakers that would be suitable but are not sold by Crutchfield.

For the rear door I am looking at 4" speakers (but see new edit below). These speakers have a "top-mount depth" of 2 " or less. But the size of the speakers will have to verified after I receive the aftermarket speaker adaptors:

1. Boston Acoustics S45
2. Alpine SPS-10C2
3. Kenwood KFC-1080ie
4. Pioneer TS-G1041R

Edit: See iwhocorrupts post below. The rear door aftermarket adaptors may accommodate 5.25" as iwhocorrupts has already installed. I will let everyone know the outcome when I receive these adaptors.

[iwhocorrupts]

I have the Infinity Reference 6021si in the front 6.5in, but in the rear I have 5.25in Rockford Fosgate, Theres quite a bit of room in the back doors, I think 4 inch would be too small

EDIT

Also, I didnt use aftermarket speaker mounts so I don't know what size range is available to you, I drilled into the door frame and mounted them direct with some foam tape

[OzC36]

iwhocorrupts,

Thanks for the heads up. I re-checked my photos and measurements and sure enough found that while the internal diameter of the stock speaker adaptor and stock speakers is 100mm (4"), the external diameter of the stock speaker adaptor is 120mm (4.75"). This indicates that the aftermarket adaptor (which allows a top mount speaker configuration instead of internal) will probably accommodate speakers up to about 5.25".

I'll let everyone know what I find out when I receive the new adaptors.

[OzC36]

I have now received the front and rear door speaker adaptors mentioned in my previous posts from the Nexxia in the UK (seven day shipping once the items were in stock).

The fronts are 163mm external diameter and 142mm internal (cutout) diameter.

The rears are 132mm external diameter and 112mm internal (cutout) diameter).

They were each shipped with screws for speaker attachment to the adaptors and two different sets of adaptor wires. One set of wires has the round terminal that fits my 1996 W202 and the other has a flat shaped terminal for something else (update W202?). The latter mentioned terminal has markings as follows:

>PBT-GF10<
(a Mercedes Star icon)
210 545 63 28
6
:AMP
1-965442-2 A

The adaptor packages were labeled Autoleads Ltd UK with a web site:

www.autoleads.co.uk

[OzC36]

And the final update on my saga...

I bought Boston Acoustics S65's (S65RC's Shallow Mounts were not in stock) for my front doors and Boston Acoustics S55's for my rear doors.

The front aftermarket speaker adaptors from Autoleads are meant to be fitted without the OEM rear basket. This deletion of the rear basket easily allowed for the deeper mount S65 speaker. The adaptors were dead simple to install and with the aftermarket wire adaptors the Boston S65's were literally just plug and play.

At the audio shop I checked the Boston S45's against the rear door aftermarket speaker adaptor and they were too small by a country mile as suggested by iwhocorrupts (thanks mate for the heads-up).

The S55's fitted the rear doors aftermarket adaptor nicely except for the four speaker mounting tabs which extended well beyond the adaptor rim. So I bent the tabs down out of the way and drilled four holes in the rim of each speaker to pick up the mounting holes on the rim of the speaker adaptor. Also I had to put a layer of sponge foam behind the rim of the speaker and the adaptor mount rim to give about 4mm of extra depth allowance, because otherwise, the rear of the S55 speaker was just touching the back surface of the OEM basket.

After that the rears became plug and play.

I am running the Boston Acoustics along with the OEM dash tweeters and the OEM rear shelf speakers off the OEM Tuner/CD head unit. They are a fantastic improvement on the OEM door speakers and well worth the research effort, time and money.

If you are interested, you can see the specs on all the Boston Acoustics speakers I referred to in this post at Crutchfield:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-3Y6bIdGXEGE/cgi-bin/ProdComp.asp?g=400&c=3&s=0&cc=01&pt2=0&compareitems=065S45&compareitems=065S55&compareitems=065S65&compareitems=065S65RC&x=24&y=0