So...just how is the project going?...:silence:

[Pagz]

Just when i thought the turbo project had hit rock bottom...i get pushed off yet another cliff....its getting hard to see the top anymore...

I start the engine the other day...and its sounds like sombody dropped some marbles in the cam cover...i check the engine over..all looks well....though once it warmed up it went away...after quiet a few k's...i pull back into the storage yard,and the belts are sqeeking alittle....no problem i think...it is pretty cold....i park it up for the night.
next day i come back...start the engine to see if it makes that awful noise again....Smooth as....hmmm.
day after that i come back to take it out again...reverse out and notice a HUGH puddle of oil....hmmm,i pop the bonnet and look straight down and see the crank pully with two turns left on the bolt.
.....i very quickly turn the engine off and proceed back home to get sockets.
the reason the belts where sqeeking was due to the crank pully being almost 1" out of alighnment,so the belt was running on the edge of the tensioner...scary stuff as if i had driven for a few more minutes on the motorway...image'n the damage!.

but.....i didnt get off that lightly....the reason the bolt came loose was because when i last changed pullys,i must have damaged/crushed the locking Key(which is now inside the sump somewhere,have tried some strong magnets but no luck just yet)...so the pully is damaged,the key is broken,i need a new seal and there is slight damage to the gear mounted to the crank...if there is too much damage i might be up for an early project on some hardcore internals.





heres a few other issues i have and how im going about it...feel free to pass your ideas on...

-ECU cuts out the engine under part throttle,but not WOT...
recently i perchased an LM-1 Wideband A/F plus data logger for 5 other inputs like RPM etc...After logging a few runs,the graphs show the mixtures up in the high 13's at WOT and 15's at part throttle...
we suspected the fix would be an adjustable fuel pressure regulator,so i blanked of the OEM one and installed a SARD unit which is up there with the best on the market....
sure enough it fixed the cutout problem!!!...but after 50k's...it started doing it again...
did the ECU cut back the injector duty to compensate for the richer mixtures it was see'n?...i dunno.
Im due in Ausi next month...am thinking about pick'n up a MoTeC M400,as local tuners know them well.

-Header and down pipe hit stuff(strut tower/supension bolt)...instead of going to court iv opted to have it redone by somone else.
this time in thick wall mild steel for many reasons.

-turbo is about 15mm higher than water tank,causing air bubbles...so next header will be a bottom mount.

-New fuel regulator causes Fuel line tapping noise...
i think it may need a dampner inline?....

-Turbo is emitting a metalic rattle from the shaft...
mostly caused by the harmonic virbration at 2500RPM,which is a result of the slight flexibilty of the thin wall header.
other things like the possibilty of crap in the bearings before install could also be causing the premature failure.
not sure how to fix this just yet...will wait for the new header.

-Engine has a rough idle,mises etc(always has)....doesnt appare to be MAF or O2,its not sparks....maybe it could be coils or leads??...

-oil bypass weld on -10 fittings leak on cam cover...
this is due to the crap metal MB use,which makes welding near impossible.
only fix is a new cover and screw in the vents next time...


Paul

[jstrat85]

Shit! Keep your heap up high! dont give up! Ill bet you that you are going to finish this project and you going to love it! I had a couple of problems also when I was putting on my turbo and I never gave up!

[jnolte]

Originally posted by jstrat85
Shit! Keep your heap up high! dont give up! Ill bet you that you are going to finish this project and you going to love it! I had a couple of problems also when I was putting on my turbo and I never gave up!

did you do it or a shop?

[c280nz]

Woa :(
you are a very dedicated and disciplined man paul, i would have given up long ago, but i guess thats the reason ill never have a car as nice as yours :p

keep ticking away at it man, youl get their

[rollinrealbig]

the problems just keep on coming huh ?

dont give up now youve gone to far!

youll get it down im sure !

[SLAMMED_C]

dude.. that sucks ass.
how did you not tighten that crank pulley bolt down?.. I guess you never had it properly in the keyway and it walked itself back out.. man that sucks.
so you need to replace the seal.. get a keyway.. and a new pulley?
hopefully no internal damage. but if so what will you do internal wise? I think the M111 Kompressor motor can handle some boost stock!
just no one knows how much exactly!
just dont give up mang.. youve put all this tijme and MONEY into it. see it out. you will be pleased when everything is sorted out and running.
custom things take time.. and lots of money! just gotta work out all the bugs.. its not like someone makes a kit for the M111 kompressor motor that bolts right up.

[jnolte]

you are a PIONNER! Its hard being the first! Dont give up mang!

[alphanumeric]

I cant wait till this c43 and probally even a c55 killer is done!

300+ wheel HP
350+ lbs of torque

will be fun in a c230. im sure everything will hold up.. but how bout your manual 5spd? :confused:

I dont know whats better sounding

C43\55 v8 exhaust

vs

c230 turbocharged with external wastegate


but wait a sec!!! your not venting the wastegate to atmosphere?

anyways it will be kick ass either way...

///childish mode off

[Pagz]

Thanks for the heads up guys!

unfortunately,there are some minor issues with what happened with the crank.

Iv come to the conclusion that there is two woodruff keys,one locates on the crank,the other into the oil drive sprocket gear...
when installing the pully for the third time i must have knocked out the crank key,which left the smaller key to take the wieght of the crank pully...this resulted in the key snapping half way inside the sprocket...
the crank key is yet to be found in the engine...it must be there!.

the problem now is,the sprocket needs to be removed to obtain the broken key...
there are two possible ways to do this....cut the oil pump chain,and use a custom made puller out through the front cover...
i have already dropped the sump and have tried gentally levering it but no go.
second is to remove the face of the engine,which is done best with the engine out of the car....

heres a pic....the engine was clean when i installed that pully,judging by the dust its been going on a while.
although hard to see in the pic,the crank does have damage where the pully has been slipping,notice the damage to the spocket key hole also,so there will need to be a new spocket i guess.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_195_full.jpg

[Pagz]

hey Ross,ever pulled that sprocket off before??Any ideas?...im not so keen on pulling out the engine,as iv only got a small garage in our new place....will even have to pull the bonnet off due to the roof clearance.

...If i did open her up i guess i'd have it all beefed up,new pistons and rods,balance it all,have a mild porting of the head and make sure all was mechanicly sound.

[jstrat85]

Originally posted by jnolte
did you do it or a shop?
a shop did it for me.

[rollinrealbig]

Originally posted by 23K
hey Ross,ever pulled that sprocket off before??Any ideas?...im not so keen on pulling out the engine,as iv only got a small garage in our new place....will even have to pull the bonnet off due to the roof clearance.

...If i did open her up i guess i'd have it all beefed up,new pistons and rods,balance it all,have a mild porting of the head and make sure all was mechanicly sound.

I say if it has to be done, might as well make the best out of your situation!

any chance they make coated pistons ?

[alphanumeric]

well that sux.. we would never know how much abuse the 2.3 engine would handle =( M111

[SLAMMED_C]

Originally posted by 23K
hey Ross,ever pulled that sprocket off before??Any ideas?...im not so keen on pulling out the engine,as iv only got a small garage in our new place....will even have to pull the bonnet off due to the roof clearance.

...If i did open her up i guess i'd have it all beefed up,new pistons and rods,balance it all,have a mild porting of the head and make sure all was mechanicly sound.

nope.. never had to pull that sprocket off before mang. you be the first!!
I have some documents to send you though.. explains everything ya need to know on how to remove it!.. will scan them and email ASAP.



Originally posted by alphanumeric
well that sux.. we would never know how much abuse the 2.3 engine would handle =( M111
well with 8.8:1 compression I bet the motor can handle some boost!

[Pagz]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
nope.. never had to pull that sprocket off before mang. you be the first!!
I have some documents to send you though.. explains everything ya need to know on how to remove it!.. will scan them and email ASAP.



well with 8.8:1 compression I bet the motor can handle some boost!

Kool your the man!...i think i will need to remove the front of the engine...iv already pulled most of the engine out,as have decided to go the whole way,utilise the factory specs but install some flashy internals,clean up the head and balance crank etc.

hmmm M111 has an 8.8!,didnt know!...

[rollinrealbig]

does anybody want to explain what 8.8:1 compression means ?

LoL yes im am the curious type!

[c280nz]

thats a pritty low compression ratio, id expect it to handle some boost. i like your thinking with fresh internals!

[alphanumeric]

wow thats pretty crazy getting this deep into a project and not knowing how much compression the motor has.. lol

[Pagz]

Originally posted by alphanumeric
wow thats pretty crazy getting this deep into a project and not knowing how much compression the motor has.. lol

How much better off would i have been knowing it;)?...

hey rollin,comp ratio is bottom dead centre volume vs top dead centre....
thats say we have a comp ratio of 8.8-1 and volume at top dead centre was 50cc,than at bottom dead centre it would be 440cc.
we would say 440cc is compressed to 50cc in a stroke...
hence 8.8-1.

Paul

[Pagz]

Originally posted by c280nz
thats a pritty low compression ratio, id expect it to handle some boost. i like your thinking with fresh internals!

Hey man,yeh from what iv heard the ratio should suit for what im doing,but will not know exactly until we max out the system i guess...and thats along way away!....

fresh internals would be great!...just looking at some custom JE Pistons...may keep the rods,and will have the flywheel,crank and crank pully balanced as one...its not as expensive as i first thought!....

Ps sory have PM'd back will do so...

[rollinrealbig]

Originally posted by 23K
How much better off would i have been knowing it;)?...

hey rollin,comp ratio is bottom dead centre volume vs top dead centre....
thats say we have a comp ratio of 8.8-1 and volume at top dead centre was 50cc,than at bottom dead centre it would be 440cc.
we would say 440cc is compressed to 50cc in a stroke...
hence 8.8-1.

Paul
ok im gettin it, so natrually-asp. engines are better off with a lower comp. ratio because when you add the turbo/SC it will increase it, making the over-all comp.ratio higher but the engine would handle ???

and so is that why they surface the engine blocks more then normal so the engine would have a higher compression ? I know you always have to resureface the block after an engine overheat to make sure the block surface is still perfectly flat.

[SLAMMED_C]

Originally posted by 23K
Kool your the man!...i think i will need to remove the front of the engine...iv already pulled most of the engine out,as have decided to go the whole way,utilise the factory specs but install some flashy internals,clean up the head and balance crank etc.

hmmm M111 has an 8.8!,didnt know!...

Okay mang.. I will be sending you a few documents inthe next comple mins.. hopefully they will be accepted through your email at work!

yeh me thinks its best if you remove the front cover. hopefully the documents Im sending will aid you in that.
nice.. what ya gonna do internal wise?.. forged pistions/rods? balance and blueprint the engine? you can pick up so much more hp with a balanced and blueprinted motor.
maybe this is a good time to stroke the motor to 2.5L! Id love to have my motor stroked to 2.5 or 2.6L and have it balanced and blueprinted. but I always figured it would cost a fortune?.. how much you recon its gonna cost you?

[Pagz]

Originally posted by rollinrealbig
ok im gettin it, so natrually-asp. engines are better off with a lower comp. ratio because when you add the turbo/SC it will increase it, making the over-all comp.ratio higher but the engine would handle ???

and so is that why they surface the engine blocks more then normal so the engine would have a higher compression ? I know you always have to resureface the block after an engine overheat to make sure the block surface is still perfectly flat.

not quite...i'll try explain it the best i can...
there are plenty of factors that determine the compression ratio's on turbo and N/A cars...alot hinges on the fuel that will be used.

for turbo cars the ratio is usually a compromise between off boost torque/low end torque,vs HP it will be running.
this means if the ratio is too low,the car will be unresponsive,low torque in off boost situations,and could cause idle issues.
the plus side of a lower compression is you can fit more correctly mixed Air and fuel into the given space which = more power.

as N/A engines only have 13-14.7 depending on your intake...so the manufacturer will raise the ratio as high as the fuel octane level will allow,as it will provide best responce and power based on the atmo pressure...

there is only so much air volume and fuel you can fit in a given space that will burn correctly,and the octane rating of fuel(detonation rating) will determine this....

an example is a high HP honda engine...it will have a very high compression,and will need to run high octane gas,otherwise it will detonate...likewise for high pressure turbo systems.

i missed out a few other factors ,so if anyones keen to explain it further please do....


Paul

[Pagz]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
Okay mang.. I will be sending you a few documents inthe next comple mins.. hopefully they will be accepted through your email at work!

yeh me thinks its best if you remove the front cover. hopefully the documents Im sending will aid you in that.
nice.. what ya gonna do internal wise?.. forged pistions/rods? balance and blueprint the engine? you can pick up so much more hp with a balanced and blueprinted motor.
maybe this is a good time to stroke the motor to 2.5L! Id love to have my motor stroked to 2.5 or 2.6L and have it balanced and blueprinted. but I always figured it would cost a fortune?.. how much you recon its gonna cost you?

yip got those E-mails man,thanks!!!...
when we get her out it looks like i'll just do pistons...wont know which design until we pop the top...
reason being it looks like the rods would be custom...which is huge money....also displacment upgrades require way to much calculation and WAAAAAY to much money lol
have been put onto a pro who will balance the crank,flywheel and crank pully as one...which should be interesting....he will also balance the weights of the rods etc...
cost could be between 2 and 3 depending on what we do with the ports etc...but i wont really know until we get it all rollin...will keep you posted!...

[rollinrealbig]

sorry to get you guys off topic with me asking about engine comp., new thread about it in Performance Tuning, so go continue the topic there, thanks!

Rollin

[rollinrealbig]

back to the topic ... imagine a ported, perfectly balanced, 2.6 liter Turbo W202 w/manual box ... that is alot of HP's waiting to be made!

then Paul would have to change his name from 23K to 26T LoL

[Pagz]

Originally posted by rollinrealbig
back to the topic ... imagine a ported, perfectly balanced, 2.6 liter Turbo W202 w/manual box ... that is alot of HP's waiting to be made!

then Paul would have to change his name from 23K to 26T LoL

yeh i wish!....im already pushing things way further than first expected,maybe i'll gain some more RPM somewhere along the line...should make up for the smaller displacment!...

[rollinrealbig]

Originally posted by 23K
yeh i wish!....im already pushing things way further than first expected,maybe i'll gain some more RPM somewhere along the line...should make up for the smaller displacment!...

since your pushing the limits - push em all the way and make a 2.6! LoL I know cash also plays a big role, but no one is rushing you, your 202 isnt going to fly away itll be there .... frozen.

then youll be the first to push the M111 to its fullest.

[Pagz]

Originally posted by rollinrealbig
since your pushing the limits - push em all the way and make a 2.6! LoL I know cash also plays a big role, but no one is rushing you, your 202 isnt going to fly away itll be there .... frozen.

then youll be the first to push the M111 to its fullest.

think in the tens of thousands to redesign the crank;)...would be nice though...then they would get it wrong and charge me twice the price...hey im used to it lol

i might however grab a few cc from larger pistons...will have to do the math on weather on not its worth the hassel...

[rollinrealbig]

yea looks like you plan things out real well, just that nobody can get things right the first time, leaving you to pay up twice. :rolleyes: