230K Internal PICS...

[Pagz]

Engine was cracked open today...
And things look good inside....real good...the bores still show the factory hoaning like new,the crank and big ends are good and there seems to be no damage from the lost woodruff key.

Iv also been told the pistons are indeed forged Items,which im still not to sure about,as i didnt think forged items had casting marks,maybe there cast then compacted to save material?...so will be taking them to a few workshops to discuss.
there is what appears to be a hot spot on each piston...could this have been after the accidental high boost run...could be.
So weather or not we replace them has now yet to be decided...maybe WE WILL find out what the 230K internals can produce.
Notice the oil jets at the bottom of the bore,apparently the 230K is the only M111 with them....heres the pics

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_198_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_199_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_200_full.jpg http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_202_full.jpg http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_203_full.jpg http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/735000-735999/735658_201_full.jpg

Paul

[alphanumeric]

:cool:

[benzonline]

Whats the mileage on your car? I wonder how mine looks, at 90,000kms (55,000miles).

[Pagz]

Originally posted by benzonline
Whats the mileage on your car? I wonder how mine looks, at 90,000kms (55,000miles).

Depending on your service history,it should be excellent.
mines done 97K's!.

[Nitrogenbalance]

Thats awesome bud.

Your posts are very entertaining for myself as well as informative.

I have thought about buying a used 5.5 block down the road, having it broken down, rebuilt, ported, polished etc....and dropping it in. Your car is defenitly 1 of 1.

[SLAMMED_C]

LOL.. i wonder what my engine looks like with 150,000km!!!
I may just find out myself if.. IF i do decide to dome some internal work too.. still pondering.
lookin good mang.. hopefully you have found yourself a wiked machine shop.

[Pagz]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
LOL.. i wonder what my engine looks like with 150,000km!!!
I may just find out myself if.. IF i do decide to dome some internal work too.. still pondering.
lookin good mang.. hopefully you have found yourself a wiked machine shop.

I wouldnt be suprised if it was similar condition to mine!,the MB tolerances seem to be excellent!....
As for the right machine shop..i dont think iv found the best one,but it will do for now!...

today i dropped the head in,they will be giving it a very mild port clean up along with valve seat machining!...ready in about 2-3 weeks.

After sighting the pistons again we concluded they are NOT forged.
though the debate still rages weather or not to replace the OEM with forged,as there are trade-offs like noise and life expectancy.
the bottom line is,if where planning to run 15psi,its safer to go forged.

the "lookalike" hot spot on the piston was apparently done in production,so no worries there.

hey Ross,DAMN oem AMG parts are expensive lol,those skirts where like 1400+............................................. .then i had to get new lower door seals,the top skirt caps,the jack point caps,lots of little clips etc...and WOA like another 800 pops up F@@@RK.
the the guys are gonna knock the cost back after i get all the engine parts like
-big end shells
-big end bolts
-flywheel bolts
-head bolts
-head gasket
-crank sprocket
-crank keys
-sump gasket
-crank seals
-valve stem seals
-timing chain seals
-timing chain
-crank vent seal

never new i'd need that much stuff...lol,chi-ching...have to start doing a few more hours these coming weeks hmmm.

[Pagz]

also after some discusion on the cams/valves etc,we decided for best street drivability,we would keep it stock!,as they look to be setup for good torque,and as the thought of increasing the RPM threshhold would be nice...the amount of work involved without a garantee for reliability....its staying stock also!

have also decided not to ceramic coat the exhaust ports,as the high heat induced by the process does not help the life of the alloy....and gains are minimal.
so what iv read in books may not always be the best way hmmm.

[Pagz]

Originally posted by Nitrogenbalance
Thats awesome bud.

Your posts are very entertaining for myself as well as informative.

I have thought about buying a used 5.5 block down the road, having it broken down, rebuilt, ported, polished etc....and dropping it in. Your car is defenitly 1 of 1.

Hey thanks man,rebuilding engines is a big project!,fitting more pistons into a car with less originally is even bigger!!;)

[SLAMMED_C]

Originally posted by 23K
I wouldnt be suprised if it was similar condition to mine!,the MB tolerances seem to be excellent!....
As for the right machine shop..i dont think iv found the best one,but it will do for now!...

today i dropped the head in,they will be giving it a very mild port clean up along with valve seat machining!...ready in about 2-3 weeks.

After sighting the pistons again we concluded they are NOT forged.
though the debate still rages weather or not to replace the OEM with forged,as there are trade-offs like noise and life expectancy.
the bottom line is,if where planning to run 15psi,its safer to go forged.

the "lookalike" hot spot on the piston was apparently done in production,so no worries there.

hey Ross,DAMN oem AMG parts are expensive lol,those skirts where like 1400+............................................. .then i had to get new lower door seals,the top skirt caps,the jack point caps,lots of little clips etc...and WOA like another 800 pops up F@@@RK.
the the guys are gonna knock the cost back after i get all the engine parts like
-big end shells
-big end bolts
-flywheel bolts
-head bolts
-head gasket
-crank sprocket
-crank keys
-sump gasket
-crank seals
-valve stem seals
-timing chain seals
-timing chain
-crank vent seal

never new i'd need that much stuff...lol,chi-ching...have to start doing a few more hours these coming weeks hmmm.
Yeh I dont doubt that my engine looks similar.. Ive seen older 124 engines taken apart (M104) and it still had the same surface on the cylinder walls as if it had just come off the assembly line! I was pretty impressed.. it was like a late 80's or so 124 with close to 200,000km pn it. not driven very much I guess.. but still impressive.
lol.. youve found one that will do for now!!. why not find the best one first.. then you know you will have quality work!! silly boy!
so getting some light head work done huh.. cool.. Im so tempted to drop the cash and send my engine out!! Im still debating though!
hmm.. so pistons are not forged.. so what does that mean then.. how much boost could they handle with being stock do ya think?
so going forged route then?.. decided on that yet. damn!!.. you are expecting to go north of 15lbs of boost?!! NICE!!!
I need more boost!! :(
holy fook!!!.. $1400...those AMG skirts cost a heap!!.. hmm.. wondering if I should go for C36 sides or not!.. I had though C43.. I can get them for about $6-700 for the complete side skirt kit.
how much are those freakin bolts and gaskets gonna cost?
this project is INSANE!!.. the costs just add up so quickly... and keep adding up!.. like its never going to stop!

[c280nz]

yea paul whats your job> you rob banks or something :-)
with such a low compression ratio stock id expect the engine to handle 15psi pritty comfortably.
but this just seems to never end man :o
its all good tho!!!

[Pagz]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
Yeh I dont doubt that my engine looks similar.. Ive seen older 124 engines taken apart (M104) and it still had the same surface on the cylinder walls as if it had just come off the assembly line! I was pretty impressed.. it was like a late 80's or so 124 with close to 200,000km pn it. not driven very much I guess.. but still impressive.
lol.. youve found one that will do for now!!. why not find the best one first.. then you know you will have quality work!! silly boy!
so getting some light head work done huh.. cool.. Im so tempted to drop the cash and send my engine out!! Im still debating though!
hmm.. so pistons are not forged.. so what does that mean then.. how much boost could they handle with being stock do ya think?
so going forged route then?.. decided on that yet. damn!!.. you are expecting to go north of 15lbs of boost?!! NICE!!!
I need more boost!! :(
holy fook!!!.. $1400...those AMG skirts cost a heap!!.. hmm.. wondering if I should go for C36 sides or not!.. I had though C43.. I can get them for about $6-700 for the complete side skirt kit.
how much are those freakin bolts and gaskets gonna cost?
this project is INSANE!!.. the costs just add up so quickly... and keep adding up!.. like its never going to stop!

Hahah yeh its still very hard to know which shops the best...these guys are old,and have plenty of experience...but i get a slight feeling not so much on newer engines...as one of them didnt know what the dual mass flywheel was...scary.
however they are only doing the crank and piston work,the head has been dropped into a specialist.
im keeping a close eye on everything to make sure it all goes back together properly and i dont get ripped in the process.

I think the stock internals are good,from discussion with some workshops..i think they should be able to handle at least 50% more HP...
one drawback from retaining the cast piston is its weak against detonation...so if we do run high boost theres very little room for mistake and the ring lands give up easily...the more boost i run,the more chance of damage,and i really dont wanna pull her apart again in a hurry!
so today i decided to go forged,iv just sent a sample piston to Top-end perfomance in Hollywood,we've decided to go with ceramic top/moly coated skirts with low friction grooves,lightwieght pins,and gapless rings to maximise torque and lower blowby...mmm shiny new pistons;)

so now we've decided to go forged,it will take just over a month before i get them so plenty of time to get things all ready..then its straight to the fabs to get that those manifolds made...will pop into the enginneers on moday,and have them mill a flange for the intake manifold....once iv had one completed and tested i'll give you an idea of cost for you to decide if it worth it...it will be a few months still though!...

yeh man so expensive...i was thinkin maybe i should have imported them myself lol...couldnt find a decent shop to do it though...searched the net for ages!.
the C36 ones where cheaper than the C43 i think...but maybe the C43 doesnt require a whole lot of extra bits?!?!
i think the C36 would suit you better...but since you already have the rear maybe C43:confused:
getting the sides painted on monday,would have been nice to drive it out for a shoot hmmm lol

iv concluded i am INSANE:D and theres no going back!
the focus is a smooth refined turbo setup with good performance and minimal compromise...so far HUGE compromise...

and the engine parts...around $800NZD worth i think...i was thinkin ahh about 200 last week... mind you in your dollar its more like $550 i guess!

Paul

[Pagz]

Originally posted by c280nz
yea paul whats your job> you rob banks or something :-)
with such a low compression ratio stock id expect the engine to handle 15psi pritty comfortably.
but this just seems to never end man :o
its all good tho!!!

:bandit: :bandit: :bandit: my mom and dad give me 2000 a week for studying another language here :p


I dont think it will ever totally end!:D...
what i would like to do is get her all tuned up and take it down the quater for a few tests!....i just want it running well damn it!...things just take forever to get done...i should have started with a programable ECU also!...

one things for sure...this car will achieve the 300rwhp i want it to!...regardless of how many limbs/organs it takes
it will happen!grrrrr

[SLAMMED_C]

Originally posted by 23K
Hahah yeh its still very hard to know which shops the best...these guys are old,and have plenty of experience...but i get a slight feeling not so much on newer engines...as one of them didnt know what the dual mass flywheel was...scary.
however they are only doing the crank and piston work,the head has been dropped into a specialist.
im keeping a close eye on everything to make sure it all goes back together properly and i dont get ripped in the process.

I think the stock internals are good,from discussion with some workshops..i think they should be able to handle at least 50% more HP...
one drawback from retaining the cast piston is its weak against detonation...so if we do run high boost theres very little room for mistake and the ring lands give up easily...the more boost i run,the more chance of damage,and i really dont wanna pull her apart again in a hurry!
so today i decided to go forged,iv just sent a sample piston to Top-end perfomance in Hollywood,we've decided to go with ceramic top/moly coated skirts with low friction grooves,lightwieght pins,and gapless rings to maximise torque and lower blowby...mmm shiny new pistons;)

so now we've decided to go forged,it will take just over a month before i get them so plenty of time to get things all ready..then its straight to the fabs to get that those manifolds made...will pop into the enginneers on moday,and have them mill a flange for the intake manifold....once iv had one completed and tested i'll give you an idea of cost for you to decide if it worth it...it will be a few months still though!...

yeh man so expensive...i was thinkin maybe i should have imported them myself lol...couldnt find a decent shop to do it though...searched the net for ages!.
the C36 ones where cheaper than the C43 i think...but maybe the C43 doesnt require a whole lot of extra bits?!?!
i think the C36 would suit you better...but since you already have the rear maybe C43:confused:
getting the sides painted on monday,would have been nice to drive it out for a shoot hmmm lol

iv concluded i am INSANE:D and theres no going back!
the focus is a smooth refined turbo setup with good performance and minimal compromise...so far HUGE compromise...

and the engine parts...around $800NZD worth i think...i was thinkin ahh about 200 last week... mind you in your dollar its more like $550 i guess!

Paul
well as long as you know you know you have experienced guys doing all the work. that whats importnant, dont need no fook ups now!!.. especially with the internals of the engine.
hmm.. so ya think in the neighborhood of 280hp the stock block and internals would be fine?.. and just by swapping out the pistons for some forged ones ya think it would be good enough to handle more?.. like over 300hp?
nice.. cant wait to see these pistons when ya get them back!.. how ya hear about top-end performance?.. they good?
yeh ya still need that turbo manifold.. so sticking with the log design?
any word on a custom intake manifold at all?
cool mang.. let me know approximatley how much the internals will run ya.. Im still considering sending my motor out instead of the engine swap.. I may send my motor to Brabus though, they did my buddies motor in his C-coupe. and that car is fukin fast!
ya could be right.. Ive never priced out the C36 sides.. they just may be cheaper. well I have the C43 rear bumper or now. eventually I will finish my custom rear Rieger bumper and have that back on. so I still have options for sides.
nice.. get them sides painted man!! finally!!
youre damn right theres no going back!!.. you are INSANE!..but guys like you are awesome.. go big or go home!! I hate when people mod cars half assed.
damn!.. those bolts and such add up quickly!!... all worht it in the end though.. well hopefully!

[Pagz]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
well as long as you know you know you have experienced guys doing all the work. that whats importnant, dont need no fook ups now!!.. especially with the internals of the engine.
hmm.. so ya think in the neighborhood of 280hp the stock block and internals would be fine?.. and just by swapping out the pistons for some forged ones ya think it would be good enough to handle more?.. like over 300hp?
nice.. cant wait to see these pistons when ya get them back!.. how ya hear about top-end performance?.. they good?
yeh ya still need that turbo manifold.. so sticking with the log design?
any word on a custom intake manifold at all?
cool mang.. let me know approximatley how much the internals will run ya.. Im still considering sending my motor out instead of the engine swap.. I may send my motor to Brabus though, they did my buddies motor in his C-coupe. and that car is fukin fast!
ya could be right.. Ive never priced out the C36 sides.. they just may be cheaper. well I have the C43 rear bumper or now. eventually I will finish my custom rear Rieger bumper and have that back on. so I still have options for sides.
nice.. get them sides painted man!! finally!!
youre damn right theres no going back!!.. you are INSANE!..but guys like you are awesome.. go big or go home!! I hate when people mod cars half assed.
damn!.. those bolts and such add up quickly!!... all worht it in the end though.. well hopefully!

for sure,i dont see why they wouldnt handle 280HP!!!...it would of course need to be proven!!!the primary benifit of the forged pistons is there ability to take alot more abuse without death,and there also likley to be lighter!...
mmm brabus motor..that would cost big time???...you should do it!...mind you,do you have access to all the engine tools?,you could just buy there parts and assemble yourself??
thanks man,unfortunatly it is a case of go big or go home...mentally i just cant do things by half...especially not my hobby!
and i pay for it i guess...funny though,i think i enjoy the engineering side almost more than driving it...though the running product is definatly the cream on top!

i found top end performance on the net...typed in JE pistons!.
responce was informative,quick and clear...and so have the last three replies...plus he answered all the questions i could fire at him!!!...so the deal should be smooth i hope!

Paul

[SLAMMED_C]

Originally posted by 23K
for sure,i dont see why they wouldnt handle 280HP!!!...it would of course need to be proven!!!the primary benifit of the forged pistons is there ability to take alot more abuse without death,and there also likley to be lighter!...
mmm brabus motor..that would cost big time???...you should do it!...mind you,do you have access to all the engine tools?,you could just buy there parts and assemble yourself??
thanks man,unfortunatly it is a case of go big or go home...mentally i just cant do things by half...especially not my hobby!
and i pay for it i guess...funny though,i think i enjoy the engineering side almost more than driving it...though the running product is definatly the cream on top!

Paul
It would need to be proven.. Im just curious to know how much a stock M111 Kompressor motor can take!!.. it must be more then we all think!
yes definetly.. forged is always the way to go.. if its affordable!!
yeh.. BRABUS!!.. and pricey isnt the word!.. you could buy another car for the price of a brabus motor!.. a brand new car!
no I dont think they would do that.. its not as simple as installing brabus internals.. they also to a full balance and blue print of the engine, lighten everything they can, port and poilsh, port match too I think.. its a huge job.. when youre done, they give you a folder with all the things they did to it.. with all the specs!.. like a portfolio for the motor!
thats like me too.. go big or go home. I cant do a mod half assed.. gotta do it right the first time and have it last.
yeh I love the engineering side too.. I love building things or modifying things.. but the best for sure is the gratification when all of what you did performs!

[Pagz]

lol dude where do you put all you body parts?,and your winter wheels!:D must have a big bedroom,or huge garage!..iv got no room at this new place...had to remove the bonnet to take out the engine!!!,so the spare room is completely full of car parts lol..

[Pagz]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
It would need to be proven.. Im just curious to know how much a stock M111 Kompressor motor can take!!.. it must be more then we all think!
yes definetly.. forged is always the way to go.. if its affordable!!
yeh.. BRABUS!!.. and pricey isnt the word!.. you could buy another car for the price of a brabus motor!.. a brand new car!.. but I have a hook up. so not AS espensive. but still not cheap!
no I dont think they would do that.. its not as simple as installing brabus internals.. they also to a full balance and blue print of the engine, lighten everything they can, port and poilsh, port match too I think.. its a huge job.. when youre done, they give you a folder with all the things they did to it.. with all the specs!.. like a portfolio for the motor!
thats like me too.. go big or go home. I cant do a mod half assed.. gotta do it right the first time and have it last.
yeh I love the engineering side too.. I love building things or modifying things.. but the best for sure is the gratification when all of what you did performs!

Just quietly...i think it will handle quite alot more than where expecting...especially when you relate it to some Jap 2L turbo engines,sure engines vary substantially,but from what iv seen so far the M111 komp is pretty robust looking inside!!...maybe you will be the one to find out??;)..i would have if i had have installed that crank pully right in the first place...damn it!

I see,well it would definatly be an awsome engine after brabus had done the work!!!..i'd have to buy a plane ticket just to come see what they had achieved lol

[c280nz]

hopefully the head gasget and exhaust side of the head can handle all the extra heat. what head gasget you going to run?
so im also guessing you are gona need to get bigger injectors and have you decided on what ecu to run?
& 300rwhp is quite alot of hp man! its gona be pritty bad.
my c280 is 150rwhp stock and i thought that went ok :o
i need money like that for studyn our language :( lucky bastard

[Pagz]

Originally posted by c280nz
hopefully the head gasget and exhaust side of the head can handle all the extra heat. what head gasget you going to run?
so im also guessing you are gona need to get bigger injectors and have you decided on what ecu to run?
& 300rwhp is quite alot of hp man! its gona be pritty bad.
my c280 is 150rwhp stock and i thought that went ok :o
i need money like that for studyn our language :( lucky bastard

I think a new OEM Head gasket should be fine,as long as we have a good tune and dont end up with unacceptable combustion...
iv been searching all morning for the best deal on a M400...it seems to be best from australia...but then theres the enable codes for cam adjustment,wide band lambda,and drive by wire...which pushes prices through the roof...though MoTeC is convenient as its compatible with the bosch throttle body etc!
i'll look at injectors after the ECU...would most likely need a new pump also,will see.

I wish i was paid to learn here also lol:D...
its convenient im not paying a morgage anymore,so living costs are way down,spending on the car way up!.

[SLAMMED_C]

Originally posted by 23K
Just quietly...i think it will handle quite alot more than were expecting...especially when you relate it to some Jap 2L turbo engines,sure engines vary substantially,but from what iv seen so far the M111 komp is pretty robust looking inside!!...maybe you will be the one to find out??;)..i would have if i had have installed that crank pully right in the first place...damn it!

I see,well it would definatly be an awsome engine after brabus had done the work!!!..i'd have to buy a plane ticket just to come see what they had achieved lol

well you would know best!!.. you have yours all apart! Im guessing the stock block and internals could handle some nice power. but I dont get why mercedes would do that to the engine knowing full well 90% of the cars with this motor will never see anything above stock boost and tuning. I guess for longevity?...
or have they themselves done something with this motor we are all not aware of!!
well I might be the one to find out.. I just have to decide if I want to be the one!.. or do my motor swap. Im still not sure what I should do.
yeh!.. but thats okay. sometimes things happen for a reason.. you are meant to do internals!!
yeh no doubt man.. Brabus engine would be insane.. I still dont know though. it would take about a month to complete! so no car for a month!.. or a rental car for a month.
lol.. Im gonna hold you to that then!!.. if I do get it done.. Im expecting you to visit!! lol

[VIP_MBZ]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
this project is INSANE!!.. the costs just add up so quickly... and keep adding up!.. like its never going to stop!

Ohh yeah... engine buildups are very insane. Ask me how I know...

http://ray.dollete.com/images/block06.jpg

BTW, I go through Superior Automotive in Anaheim.

-Ray

[Pagz]

mmm soo shiny

how long till you get that thing running?

[VIP_MBZ]

Originally posted by 23K
mmm soo shiny

how long till you get that thing running?

Forever and a day, ha. I need to reacquire so many little things which I mistakenly sold off long ago that it's literally a from-scratch build up (i.e. I need to buy a new oil pan + baffle + oil pump, etc), and then I decided to use TEC3 instead of stock ECU with piggybacks to handle the 720's..... it will be nothing short of a miracle if I make it to the big meet in Vegas in October. I'm more shooting for up and running by next summer with a goal of 600rwhp on 91 octane with a streetable curve. My buddy hit 715 rwhp on 91 octane, but the curve was pretty useless.

-Ray

[SLAMMED_C]

Its aloways those damn lil things in the end that kills ya.. either you forget about them, or there are just so many the costs add up quicker then expected!!

[Pagz]

Originally posted by VIP_MBZ
Forever and a day, ha. I need to reacquire so many little things which I mistakenly sold off long ago that it's literally a from-scratch build up (i.e. I need to buy a new oil pan + baffle + oil pump, etc), and then I decided to use TEC3 instead of stock ECU with piggybacks to handle the 720's..... it will be nothing short of a miracle if I make it to the big meet in Vegas in October. I'm more shooting for up and running by next summer with a goal of 600rwhp on 91 octane with a streetable curve. My buddy hit 715 rwhp on 91 octane, but the curve was pretty useless.

-Ray

you've got a fair way to go!,its a fairly big project especially avoiding loosing the lower half,have you been in/driven a similar setup with the GT35 before??

[VIP_MBZ]

Originally posted by 23K
you've got a fair way to go!,its a fairly big project especially avoiding loosing the lower half,have you been in/driven a similar setup with the GT35 before??

At that power level, the bottom end I'm working with is way overkill. Most people run Supra motors (1JZ, 2JZ) on stock internals at anything below ~700 rwhp, and they hold up just fine, given correct tuning. If you want to talk about indestructible design, the JZ family is all that and a bag of chips, certainly more bulletproof than the Nissan RB26DETT (in stock form) or VG30DETT. After you forge a JZ, the sky is the limit. Last Supras Invade Las Vegas, Ryan Woon pegged a 1600 rwhp dyno. We can only speculate the actual power produced.

As for the GT35R, I haven't experienced that turbo directly, but I have experienced the much bigger options, like HKS T51R Kai, T04R, and Garret T78. I want something with a much smoother power delivery, and was leaning on the HKS T04Z for a long time, but the GT35R on paper is better in every way. T04Z is just a T04R with dual ball bearing, but is still essentially an old design.

On paper, the GT35R should be as smooth as stock twins (referring to 1JZ true twins, not 2JZ sequential twins), but without the loss of efficiency at higher boost/rpm. And at the end of the day, that's all I want.

There's a BMW from EF1/DPE that is running a GT35R on a 2.5L w/720's and a TEC3, and it has a beautiful power curve up to about 500 rwhp. I woudln't complain about that at all.

-Ray

[enawazh]

This might seem off topic but i was wondering how these engines compare with the 202 I6.

what im trying to say is ive seen so many skylines and supras hit between 400-600 HP on stock internals.

what makes these I6's different from the the ones in the 202?

[Pagz]

Originally posted by enawazh
This might seem off topic but i was wondering how these engines compare with the 202 I6.

what im trying to say is ive seen so many skylines and supras hit between 400-600 HP on stock internals.

what makes these I6's different from the the ones in the 202?

possibly LOTS;)....could be almost everything...except they both have six cylinders.

im only speculating,as its fairly hard to tell the differences without seeing the engines open side by side...
for one CR will be higher on the 202...so that will take you back from 400-600 on pump gas thats for sure.

Paul

[VIP_MBZ]

Originally posted by enawazh
This might seem off topic but i was wondering how these engines compare with the 202 I6.

what im trying to say is ive seen so many skylines and supras hit between 400-600 HP on stock internals.

what makes these I6's different from the the ones in the 202?

I have not been inside a Mercedes I6, but from my experience with the big JDMs, they are just simply way overbuilt from the factory. Even compared to other japanese motors, the RB and JZ family feature a cast iron block, excessive oil and coolant passages including a baffled oil pan to prevent oil starvation (and negating a need for knife-eding the crank), factory steel head gasket, and premium construction of all block internals.

The fuel system is also very excessive for both Supras and Skylines (550cc injectors) -- their factory fuel pumps are often used as upgrades on other cars, and the Denso engine management system is mapped excessively to cover conditions that the car would never hit in stock form.

Here's a pic of a factory 1JZ/2JZ upper oil pan (lower one bolts on to this one, after attaching the baffle plate) and rods, mated to forged pistons:

http://ray.dollete.com/images/oilpan1.jpg

600rwhp on any of the RB25, RB26, 1JZ, or 2JZ with factory internals is a piece of cake.

400rwhp is more the territory for the big dog 4cylinder motors, like Toyota 3S-GTE and Nissan SR20DET, both 2.0L I4's who can both do so on factory internals. Similar design principles.

BMW motors look curiously like Toyota motors with the 'G' designation after the dash in the engine code name (4A-GE, 1JZ-GTE, 2ZZ-GE etc), which in Toyota lingo signifies a Yamaha-designed performance oriented cylinder head. I'm almost positive that BMW also incorporates Yamaha head design into some of their motors. Their new twin turbo motor for the 3-series looks almost exactly like a 1JZ.

-Ray

[Pagz]

Thanks for reminding me how much of a pig the 230k engine is in stock form,had the injectors flow tested the other day,there good for just over 54HP each.lol
its ever so tempting to go back to japanese...just saw a dyno run on a local drag evo3 which i think has just taken out a huge record(high 7 or very low 8 sec quarter) with its 2L producing over 1100 at all four.

i still like the 202 however...so be it.

[benkokes]

Great picts!

I am a 98 SLK 230K owner, and I believe that my head gasket needs to be replaced. (I pulled #4 sparkplug and saw water in the cylinder, it cracked the plug's electrode, I believe).

Picts in this thread:
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/r170-slk-class/1286329-water-cylinder-4-a.html

SOOO, Since I am going to the trouble of taking off the head, I was wondering if there is anything else I should do before putting it back on ( Like a port-n-polish, etc).

Also, Where would I find all the torque specs for that engine? Can I just use a manual for any 230K mercedes?

Thanks,
-Ben

[RemoLexi]

Bringing this thread back alive,

23K, so those oil jets at the bottom of the bores,

They came only on Komp. engines to provide additional lubrication when running boost correct me if im wrong.

so can they be added to Non Komp engine blocks and is there any other pipes/tubes that go to those oil jets or what is making the oil come up those jets and forced?

[VIP_MBZ]

Originally posted by RemoLexi
Bringing this thread back alive,

23K, so those oil jets at the bottom of the bores,

They came only on Komp. engines to provide additional lubrication when running boost correct me if im wrong.


It's really common on OEM boosted applications of various makes, but it's not really optimally placed for additional lubrication -- they are more designed to just help cool the piston.

An n/a motor doesn't need any less lubrication inside the combustion chamber anyhow.

-Ray

[RemoLexi]

lets say my engine wont be N/A for long, Can these jets be added to a M111 N/A engine block for better cooling of the stock pistons/lubrication ?

[Pagz]

Originally posted by RemoLexi
lets say my engine wont be N/A for long, Can these jets be added to a M111 N/A engine block for better cooling of the stock pistons/lubrication ?

Im pretty sure they can,i read on JasonH's old turbo w202 website about how he installed them on his N/A block...(his turbo kit is now jstrats kit),the website is not there anymore.

[RemoLexi]

ahh ... so they can be installed.

so how do they mount bolts or what ? im asking you Paul because you have seen them on your engine, so I may want to search and see if my block has holse to mount them or however they are mounted.

so agian, whats feeding the oil into them ? or are they just sitting there like in your picture ?

[Pagz]

Originally posted by RemoLexi
ahh ... so they can be installed.

so how do they mount bolts or what ? im asking you Paul because you have seen them on your engine, so I may want to search and see if my block has holse to mount them or however they are mounted.

so agian, whats feeding the oil into them ? or are they just sitting there like in your picture ?

Hmm good question,they are most likely capped off somewhere...either at the feed end,or where the jets sits...maybe both!.....im also not sure where there feed from inside the block...as i didnt check this when it was apart!...
My book says the jets on the older models had one bolt holding them on,but on the newer ones(like mine) they are pressed in...

[VIP_MBZ]

This is how they look on my Supra, but it's probably similar on the M111.

http://suprablur.935motorsports.com/store/squirters.jpg

-Ray

[Pagz]

Stud'd main bearing caps..nice!...if i had the patiance left i could have gone that way!...is it OEM?

[RemoLexi]

Ray thanks for the picture!

so okay ill find out how they are mounted from the dealer, maybe even order them while im there.

ahh I see now the oil enters the jets through the passages in the head up above in the Headgasket area.

Hmm ... I sure hope the M111 Non K is set up the same way as the Komp block so that I would have to buy a Komp. engine block and do all the internal work.

what are the dangers of not having the oil jets and running boost ? I just asked Paul about and aftermarket radiater maybe that will help reduce the heat ?

[VIP_MBZ]

Originally posted by 23K
Stud'd main bearing caps..nice!...if i had the patiance left i could have gone that way!...is it OEM?

No actually, those are ARP's... ARP everything, everywhere! =P

-Ray

[Pagz]

Originally posted by VIP_MBZ
No actually, those are ARP's... ARP everything, everywhere! =P

-Ray

haha thought so =)