Guys,I need help on engine build specs!

[Pagz]

I dont trust the haynes manual i have,theres just too many mistakes in the specifications.
the haynes manual also doesnt deal with the M111.975,but i would assume alot would be the same....its the "assume" part im scared of.

Iv found it incredibly hard to obtain actual mercedes info...if anyone knows where to get it at a resonable price that would be great!...(last time i tried ebay i never recieved the CD)

BUT what i really need to know at this present time for the M111.975 engine is:

-Big end bearing running clearance.

-main bearing running clearance.

-Head bolt torque stages and angle degree.

-main bearing bolt torque stages and angle degree.

-big end bolt torque and angle degree.


Any help would be greatly appreciated.

cheers,
Paul

[xvvvz]

>>Big end bearing running clearance.<<

Ok, I admit ignorance. What is "big end?" It sounds like some sort of reference to Oprah's booty measurements...

Check your email.

[c280nz]

i feel like adding an equally unhelpful post as the last guy

just do what i do to get any help, take some beers along to your local merc shop on a friday or saturday and ul get any info you need, as long as u take decent beer that is, like pure's rona's or stella's not cheap shit like tuis or spaights etc.
and the merc world should be your oyster

[Pagz]

Thanks guys your input has been beneficial in so many ways i just cannot comprehend =D =D =D

lol logan,But yeh the beer trick could possibly work^^

hey xvvvz,conrods have two bearings,
named big end,and small end so to say.
small end is mated to the piston via a wrist pin,while the big end wraps around its corrosponding crank journal.


Thanks heaps Mr Dave Fisher!!!
i did get those pdf's you sent!,the info matches up with my haynes specs so far!.
however what is interesting is that main bearing and big end bearing clearance are .03 - .05mm for a petrol engine,now when i measured mine it came out at .08mm...which is the spec for the diesel engine...BUT,i only tightned the bolts to 55Nm and did not angle tighten them a further 100 degrees as i felt stretching the bolts again may warrant replacement(as there new from the last rebuild)
So i wonder if i did angle tighten them would it have given me a reading inside
the .03 - .05 spec,or should 55Nm have been enough to check the clearance correctly?
the journals are stock diameter and the new bearing shells are to.
so it should be inside spec....but i got .08......hmmm somthing just doesnt add up =)

[slowpoke]

try goin to www.startekinfo.com

its the official Benz technical site for the 202 (and other models )

it's not free but the info will be worth it

[SLAMMED_C]

ill see what specs I can find for ya bro.

[Pagz]

Hey Ross,
I think the only thing i need now is how the main bearing clearance shoudl be checked...ie should the bolts be torqued and angle tightned to spec?...or just torqued?
If you find tiem to look that would be awsome dude.

Got my head back all cleaned ready for assembly,block should be bored and honed today and usps says my spec clutch is in the country...so the engine should be back together by mid next month then where onto designing a streetable single mass flywheel to bolt that new clutch too...should be interesting.

Cheers,
Paul

[Pagz]

Originally posted by slowpoke
try goin to www.startekinfo.com

its the official Benz technical site for the 202 (and other models )

it's not free but the info will be worth it

thx will check it out!

[c280nz]

paul i swear you go out to the shed tighten one bolt up then run back to the forum and ask about the next bolt :-) ive felt like ive been there with you in the shed the hole time ur build is so well documented
haha Just stirring.
should be a factory engined rocket ship when ur finished
opp nother cheap poke
god im an asshole

who are you going to get to make your flywheel?

OPP just thought from factory the flywheel and crank are balanced as one unit, you should see if you can get the flywheel made before you bolt the engine together (it may be too late)
that is the best way to balance the engine (crank and flywheel bolted together) its how they do it in the factory anyway

but dont worry i didnt go to that extreme i just got the flywheel balanced by itself and bolted it on and it seems good.

i just need to get a heavy duty sprung clutch now also.
where did u get yours from

here are some pics to brignten up my post
factory dual mass flywheel (17kg)
front

rear


single mass flywheel (8-9kg)
front

rear

there was 3 segments cut out of this also, they were needed for my factory ignition pickup, they are notshown on this picture as they were cut out afterwards.
you can see them on the outside ring of the factory one tho

[Pagz]

lmao Asshole!
but kinda right although i have to drive 3.5 hours to do one bolt at a time atm

After all I am being increadibly careful this time around for good reason,who knows what i could have done with the money i wasted on the last build...maybe some custom magnesium alloy wheels that wiegh half that of my current setup ^^ lol

I dont know who to trust on engine building anymore everyone has a different opinion...the guys im using for the block boring have a huge workshop full of race cars and nice gear with one very very flashy cnc block boring machine,they seem to know alot more than the engine reconditioners i used last time...proof will be when its running and theres no blue smoke.

I descovered that i should be putting the rings in dry,and the bores should be oiled and then wiped clean to the point where a touch test shows no residue on your finger,oil the wrist pin and bearings only...which is very interesting as the JE pistons where heavily oiled with engine assembly oil....maybe that combined with oil residue from the block air oil seperator was the reason the rings never bed in.

I descovered oil was present in the oil/air seperator because the engine must have been layed on its side at some stage during the rebuild...oil cannot escape the chamber once its in there so very slowly gets sucked into he intake.
this could have been the sole reason the rings never been in,but the race engine building guys im using believe it was oiling of the rings on assembly.

I got the clutch from UltraRev...they were one of the cheapest and allowed paypal so it was an easy transaction.
I email spec clutches first and gave them estimated torque and the application for the engine...they recommended the 3+ for better streetability....but i bet my idea of streetable is nothing like theres lol.

Will get some pics up when its here.

Take it easy bro,
Paul

[Pagz]

Oh and your flywheel is nothing like mine!!!
Timing gear is also totally different.
Iv been in contact with Endevour engineering in Tauranga,they make custom flywheels,pullys etc etc.

The outcome is to draw up the flywheel to be made in alloy to the same overall size as stock then work out its wieght with ringgear,timing gear and hardened friction insert...if its too light then we will make out of steel and try get it to the stock dimensions...steel would be much cheaper option and probibly the wiser.
they think i may have to shift the thrust bearing,but i would rather keep all dimensions same.

[Pagz]

hey did you get new ringgear?...or heat the original and reuse?

[Pagz]

lol........... ...........:dead:

[c280nz]

god theres so much i need to write in this next post my fingers are saw thinking about it

to start with damn damn damn i see no springs
and that pressure plate looks much like the factory one? does it have an uprated pressure plate? ive heard that i shud make myne double sprung,
but im just debating going to a puck clutch with a sprung center made out of a higher grip material eg half carbon half ceremic or something like that? but im yet to go there.
so fark wot are u goina do?
just chuck it back it with the standard flywheel? or get a sprung center made up?

i know of a dude who makes clutchs in wellington, and he made up this very hard core one in my mates van,
sr20det powered van, with a twin plate clutch with heavy duty race pressure plate (he can do launches in 3rd gear and it lights up the tires without slipping the clutch from standstill its pritty insane in a van,
do u want me to find out his number? might be worth giving him a ring

i used the old ring gear, heated it an moved it, i even used the same pickup magnet.
id make one out of steel to start with, thats all myne is made of, then just get them to calve weight off it till you get the desired weight.

i dont know that much about engine building, but have heard interesting things about running engines in,
something about letting it warm up slowly a couple of times, then thrashing it, but hey like you say everyone does things differently.

[Pagz]

I did stare at it for some time....thinking,there has to be springs in there somwhere surely...,there just has to be.....then it hit me...how many times have i had trouble ordering from over there lol...i should have known better not to get my hopes up it would be right first time^^,this is the forth company to get there info mixed up and send me the wrong part.

Hopfully they will return it at there cost and supply me with a sprung version,after all they did tell me it was spung well before it was shipped!.

The spec pressure plate should look pretty close to stock,i got the light wieght version of the pressure plate too,they use a lighter metal or somthing....feels pretty fricn heavy to me tho,it will be a heavier sprung pressure for sure,but i would expect most of the extra grip to be coming from the metalic clutch pad. if i recall its rated for around 500+hp,500nm which should be plenty for what im running.the kit also comes with a SACHS thrust bearing which i guess is the same depth as oe,im due up north this weekend so will bring back all sorts of stuff to compare and see whats going on.

If i were you i would try stay with a full faced clutch of sorts,just obtain a better friction material,maybe a slightly heavier plate,but keep it mild,i think people often go overbord with puck stuff,its really not nessassary alot of the time,they wear fast and making driving a biatch.

The wierd thing about these spec clutches as there rated for more than the OE DMFW would ever be able to handle..(google dual mass flywheel destruction) ^^
which goes to show they really put no effort into the design for the mercedes,they really should have made the kit with a matching single mass!.

cheers for the info,if i cant get these guys to replace it free than having one custom made will be the way!,will let you know dude.


when you heated the ring gear were you careful not to overheat?

Havent heard back from ultrarev yet,guess there emailing spec for an explination=)

[Pagz]

Spec:

"Well i guess i can build one and get it to you. But if this thing doesn't work then your customer is SOL. Since i don't have the flywheel here to take measurements we can't be 100% certain it will work. But we can give it a shot. According to the part # i have setup for it i thought it should have been sprung. But apparently thats not the case."

There going to build a custom one =). cool

[c280nz]

sweet,
i dont get it tho? why would they build a sprung center clutch if the kit is ment to go with a dual mass,
i think u have just confused them that its ment to me sprung? and there fixing the problem for you.
cos i very much doubt they would build a clutch set for people with custom solid flywheels, if they did-theyd only sell one in there lifetime and that would be to you!.

i hope they can build you one, fingers crossed,because clearance for the springs may be an issue

[Pagz]

Yeh im not sure either!,i wouldnt think there would be much harm in running a sprung with a DM anyway?...its definitly a cheaper option to run solid tho.

lol yeh cant be too many people using there merc kit,but in saying that i see alot of ppl moding the SLK230,which is identical...er well...this kit iv purchased is actaully for a 99 slk...(lol probably doesnt even fit my flywheel^^) ...but i did reference the part numbers to an slk at startech and they confirmed the same.

I think clearance of the springs will only be an issue on the flywheel,which isnt an issue for custom...i just told them to make sure the new clutch is rated for the pressure plate they supplied.

anyway fingers crossed lol will get the usual pics up when its here.

Paul

[Pagz]

Ultrarev:

"I spoke with the guys at spec and they highly don’t recommend this kit being sprung do to life of the disk will be much less you can run it like this with the aluminum flywheel just fine.. "


.................................................-.-

I guess they would try to not provide me with a sprung centre...it is more cost effective if they dont...lol

at the end of the day they said it was sprung....I WANT SPRUNG....it will not do what i want without springs.

i very much doubt life would be shorter by any great deal with springs...surely lol i see spec 3+ kits with sprung centres on SPEC's website.

Grrrrr

[c280nz]

i would think the disc would last longer with springs.
as long as the springs are rated for the torque you want.
have you paid for it?

[Pagz]

Have used CC through paypal,
I could always dispute it if they dont come back with a decent solution!,iv replied saying i want a sprung centre as they said it was,i will await there reply tomorrow and go from there.

wieghts:

SPEC pressure plate(light wieght version) - 4920g
OE pressure plate - 4800g

SPEC disk - 2060g
OE disk(very little wear) - 980g

OE flywheel 15700g

So the spec gear makes the system 1.2kg heavier!!,which is a product of being a stronger clutch i guess.
will need to factor that in with the new fw.

laters bro,
Paul

[Pagz]

had to make it clear...."they said it would be sprung!" =)

Ultrarev have told me to send the disk back to SPEC,i was hoping they would just send me the sprung one^^

So its cost me $56 to return it,they have said they will return it sprung and shipped for free...i didnt argue about my shipping costs im just happy its being done!!

laters,
Paul

[c280nz]

yea hopefully thel send you back a sprung one that will fit-
50 bucks is just another drop in the bucket for a baller like yourself paul!

[Pagz]

lol Baller^^
man I wish =P