C36 Manual conversion

[benzboy]

Hey All

I have got it into my head recently that it would be great to convert my C36 to a Manual 5 speed.

Looking at a Toyota W58 gearbox as they can handle a fair amount of abuse and are pretty cheap to pick up ($500NZD or so)

I would need a new pedal box, bell housing, flywheel?? and clutch, have I missed anything?

Am I completely insane?

Tips and opinions please

Cheers
Tom

[broke driver]

Ah.. A Supra transmission..

If the price isn't that much more, i'd suggest going with the turbo supra's manual (R154).. Here's the specsheet..

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Librar...tion=MT&Page=2

Can't give any comments or opinions on the idea of making it a manual, but just food for thought..

-J..

[benzboy]

Thought about the R154, but they are $$$ and hard to find, the W58 is a pretty stong box.

[c280nz]

did you get the idea after talking to me
um. some computer trickery so the ecu knows your moving etc mite be needed. i would imagine this part to be tricky

and you will need a custom flywheel but hey i now have a spare standard one you can buy off me or take to a machining shop to make a custom one. (they have a magnet in them for crank position sensor so its a bit of an ordeal)
custom drive shaft.
pedal box may be hard to find, the clutch master cylinder uses fluid off the brake master cylinder.
have a look at the post by turbobenz.com builder in boba lounge he may have a cheaper way to do it keeping it mercedes parts

[Mercedes DIY]

nevermind

[therock2689]

There are alot of ppl who want to do this, and rightly so. But it would be such an ordeal, i dont think it would be worth it. You would have to do so much crap to get it to work and somehow trick the ECU that its changing teh gears and not you. proly teh best thing to do it get a w203 that you can opt for manual and go from there. But if you got time, money, and alot or smart ppl who know what there doing, by all means, but probly one of the 1st US w202's that manual.


Rock

[blind26]

Originally posted by therock2689
but probly one of the 1st US w202's that manual.


Rock

We built a W202 manual years ago, and I think there are a few others in the US. Also, the thread poster is not in the US, he is located in New Zealand

[Polestar]

We built a W202 manual years ago

So, how did it work out? Was it worth the effort and how much effort was it?

[blind26]

Totally worth it... We went with a 300E manual trans... But you have to take into consideration that when you swap your trans, you effectivly change your gear ratio, so an investment into a different differential would be highly recommended.

I think with the stock auto diff we were seeing rediculous gearing, like 140 in 4th gear

[yvrbenz]

Have you given any thought to the Getrag out of a 2.3-16? It can definitely handle the load. Although on the downside it's a non-overdrive unit.

[benzboy]

Thought about it, and still in the back of my mind (along with LSD if it could be found haha)

But a couple of things, they are not easy to find, esp in this country, and not the cheapest.

Also, if I happend to blow somthing in the Supra box parts are plentiful and not overly expensive

[omeyhomey]

i did a 5speed swap on my E36 M3 and its actually not as hard as people think. cost $2000 in parts and $1000 in labor, so $3k total. I'd love to have a 5speed C36 b/c i feel that motor has huge potential waiting to be unlocked. You will need pedal box, new master & slave cylinder, reverse light wiring harness, nuetral switch, tranny, adapter for the bell housing, different length driveshaft, and a few other things here and there. more importantly you need to find a tranny with the proper ratios. a 5speed modded C36 would definitely be a force to recon with so i say go for it if you can do it for under $3k. hope that helps

[benzboy]

What trans did you use for your BMW?

[omeyhomey]

Originally posted by benzboy
What trans did you use for your BMW?

see for bmw is was much easier b/c there was already a manual transmission counterpart for the M3. you will have to go from scratch so it will cost more than $3k.

[omeyhomey]

Honestly your best bet would probably be a 6speed manual from a W203. i wouldn't be suprised if all the bolt patterns on the bell housing were identical and if it fit perfectly. Also I bet driveshaft may even be the same length. A 6speed C transmission with the proper clutch/flywheel setup would be able to handle the power. as far as internals i bet they are probably strong enough for 400 crank HP so for C36 application they should be perfect. also all other W203 components should swap over very easily. that is your best bet. hope that helps

[blind26]

At this point you'r almost talking apples and oranges when you move a 203 trans into the equastion... Depending on the 202 year, you are dealing with an I6 motor... I'm not sure a 203 trans would necessarily 'bolt up' without making a custom bellhousing or adapter...

[Abuimad]

Originally posted by Polestar
So, how did it work out? Was it worth the effort and how much effort was it?

wow its a dream for me to make my 202 a manual....let alone drive a manual c36....wow.....hope it works out,

[omeyhomey]

Originally posted by blind26
At this point you'r almost talking apples and oranges when you move a 203 trans into the equastion... Depending on the 202 year, you are dealing with an I6 motor... I'm not sure a 203 trans would necessarily 'bolt up' without making a custom bellhousing or adapter...

No, comparing W202-W203 tranny is like comparing red apple to granny smith apple. Benz to Toyota tranny, THATS comparing apples and oranges. Benz hardware is much more likely to adapt well. Alot of times the bolt patterns on the housings are very similar on benzes so it would be much more likely to work than a toyota tranny, plus ... its real OEM benz parts, not a Toyota frankensteined benz, u know. Just my suggestion

[RacerXofFL]

well im the 202 w/a 717.430 in it, and blind, its 130 in 3rd gear on stock 2.80 rear end... Ill roll race anything from 85mph... I have a 3.27LSD in the garage, just not time to install, I used to have a 3.27 open from an ordering misunderstanting. gearing was perfect. The 300e trans had blown the 3.27 diff to pices. I think it can take just about any ammount of abuse. That reminds me, I should take that atf outa there!

[omeyhomey]

3.27 gears will definitely help but the problem is you'd have to reprogram ESP b/c it couldn't take that big of a difference, it would throw a check light and run in limp mode.

[LiVn_It_UP]

i have a 89 190E with a 3.2 m104.992 and a 722.369 transmission and have a 3.27 LSD and have no problem's with the rear end (came stock)

as far as running 130 mph in 3rd gear?? i'd have to see it to believe it.. cause mine runs 80 mph at 4'gs in 4th (i have a auto and the 3.27) but i just dont see you making that

[blind26]

We'll have to get video this weekend, remember, the 300E 5-speed trans is geared differently than an auto trans...

[LiVn_It_UP]

Originally posted by blind26
We'll have to get video this weekend, remember, the 300E 5-speed trans is geared differently than an auto trans...

130 in 3rd would put you close to what 200mph in 5th?? love to see the video

[RacerXofFL]

well over 200 if the car really has the tq to do it, I wouldnt even attempt over 150 at this moment with the aerodynamics problems in the car. I can tell you I've taken her to about 140 in 4th and got a wopper of a ticket to boot.... Ill take a video with my cellphone of 3rd this weekend, that is if I can find the room...

Ive done the math btw, if memory serves itll be 227 in 5th at redline.

[c280nz]

Originally posted by LiVn_It_UP
i have a 89 190E with a 3.2 m104.992 and a 722.369 transmission and have a 3.27 LSD and have no problem's with the rear end (came stock)

as far as running 130 mph in 3rd gear?? i'd have to see it to believe it.. cause mine runs 80 mph at 4'gs in 4th (i have a auto and the 3.27) but i just dont see you making that

is that the same transmission as in a manual c280? m104?
can they handle some abuse can they?