based on the threads ive read here on club202 some people say the k&n messes up MAF others say it works fine. there are debates on this, but whats the final verdict on this issue?
also, should i buy a k&n or try to make my own CAI out of various parts. also i dont care about emissions as long as the car goes faster or sounds better. is there anyway i can raise my emissions and thus raise hp, personally idont care about the gas mielage or emissions tests. also some posts i read on this CAI are old, so now realistcally what pieces would i need for c280 1995 to build a working CAI. where can i buy them?
thanks,
Benz Newbie
well i have a k and n replacement filter in mine and havn't had any problems with it. two days ago i was playin around with a cone filter and some pipe and fabbed up a temporary intake cuz i was bored,lol. makes the magnaflow exhaust on my car sound 3times louder, its crazy. but i just put my box back in because the intake i made wasnt very pretty. ill make a nicer one someother time.
"makes the magnaflow exhaust on my car sound 3times louder, its crazy."
thanks for the response cause im here to learn how this intake stuff works, ive seen some CAI stuff on ebay for w202 but the pipe looks short and it ends with a small cone that enters the bottom of airbox. is that a CAI? or do i have to put a long pipe down near the bumper hole where the fog light should be. what causes that to "sound better"? would it sound better on stock exhaust?
anyone have like a shopping list of parts for a custom CAI, like what stuff to buy at home depot and pepboys, i dont want to order online and wait. if custom CAI is better than regular flat k&n then its prolly more worth it to build the custom CAI,
for example look at this custom CAI i found on this site. how does replacing the standard air filter with a cone one make it faster and sound better? plus in the pic the pic only ends up in the airbox but not down in the bumper. also, doesnt engine heat mess up this intake?
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yes people here always debate about cai intakes, if they suck up hot air, because the engine bay in the 202's is alway hot. some people think putting it in the bummper is better because that is where the colder air is,but than you run the risk of getting water in there. it makes the engine louder because oem air boxes are built to be quiet, and its a benz. i like how the k and n works. i also like the bumper design but you have to do some cutting and i really dont want to do that,lol but the intake i made was cheap and was just a test to see if i wanted to make a good one, im still debating.
oh the cone filter has more surface area, and is less restrictive, making more power
so in order to do the CAI you custom make a pipe to connect to the maf thing then you connect a k&n cone filter and place it in the airbox area near the whole in the bottom where the air comes it? is that what you do? will sufficeint air coming in from the grille hole on the left enter the cone filter? what size cone filter can you get for best performance?
also is there a way to modify the stock airbox so it sounds louder?
So many questions!!!
1) If you're deciding whether to use a cold air intake or replace your stock filter, you must ask yourself if you want that induction sound or not. Also, there's nothing wrong with the stock filter...by fitting a K&N replacement, you'll only gain about 1.5 kw, and these will be at your max rpm, not in your lower and mid range. So basically it's not worth it.
2) That picture you've posted there is not a CAI, it's a hot air intake which is actually sucking in hotter air than the stock intake would! and the engine bay of a 202 is not a cold place at all...
That intake is only good for making noise
I strongly recommend you build your own CAI, as it's really easy and it's cheap. All you need is some 3'' PVC piping, some silicone bends and pipe connecters, and finally a 6'' cone filter (I recommend BMC). (look at my CAI under the thread "My CAI". Feel free to ask any questions!
From my experience, the CAI, if done properly, will make your engine slightly more responsive. my consumption is very good when i drive softly (8.5l/100km) so don't believe people when they say your consumption gets worse...it only gets worse cos you wanna hear that sound all the time! Lastly, I've experienced about a 15hp increase, but only from speeds above 150kmh and up...
I'll say unequivocally that and oiled filter puts oil on the MAS and results in everything from reduced response and slugishness to all out complete and utter f*cked-up-dom.
I had been driving with a 'affected' MAS for a long time without realizing. I cleaned it and it was noticably better; though I didn't do it right (the 'trick' I think is -- if not using a newer Mass Airflow Sensor specific cleaner -- is to use a bit of brake cleaner after the Gumout).
I then did the engine swap. And I cleaned the filters there at the house where the job was being done. I washed it out in a big cleaner pan he had and let it dry. I then went and oiled it the day before the swap was going to be done. When Carl saw how much oil I put on it, he was like "oh no ... man, you're going to have problems ... I wanted to catch you before you did it ... you should clean that back off, or at least blow the oil out". I did neither. Read the outcome here (finally got a new MAS ... why did I wait so long)
I'd say if you put on a K&N, use a MAS / MAF cleaner about 1000 miles later; or Gumout followed by brake cleaner. Speedybenz has a post on the recommended procedure so you should do a search on it for posts from his handle with MAF or MAS and brake cleaner in the post. Heck, or, here's a quote from him:Originally posted by speedybenz
To clean the sensor you need to remove it from the round balck tube it is bolted to.
Well I don't see any dirt myself more of a dark varnish. I have found that carb cleaner does a pretty good job of removeing the staining and in some cases the perfromance gain is real and noticable. I typically use brake cleaner to wash the carb cleaner off the sensor parts so there is no residue left.
"2) That picture you've posted there is not a CAI, it's a hot air intake which is actually sucking in hotter air than the stock intake would! and the engine bay of a 202 is not a cold place at all...
That intake is only good for making noise
I strongly recommend you build your own CAI, as it's really easy and it's cheap. All you need is some 3'' PVC piping, some silicone bends and pipe connecters, and finally a 6'' cone filter (I recommend BMC). (look at my CAI under the thread "My CAI". Feel free to ask any questions!
From my experience, the CAI, if done properly, will make your engine slightly more responsive. my consumption is very good when i drive softly (8.5l/100km) so don't believe people when they say your consumption gets worse...it only gets worse cos you wanna hear that sound all the time! Lastly, I've experienced about a 15hp increase, but only from speeds above 150kmh and up..."
will PVC melt cause of the heat or not? are there any metal pipes i could use? also since in that pic its a cone filter sucking in hot air, will the HP decrease compared to standard airbox? also say that i build that style cai pipe, will i be damaging my car? was the w202 ment to draw in air from that cone filter that way? i dont want to mess up the engine basically what are precautions to be aware of when doing this. also, in terms of the sound, does it sound alot better or only noticable to the trained ear.
thanks for your expertise on these topics, im trying to learn as much as i can about w202s
"I then did the engine swap. And I cleaned the filters there at the house where the job was being done. I washed it out in a big cleaner pan he had and let it dry. I then went and oiled it the day before the swap was going to be done. When Carl saw how much oil I put on it, he was like "oh no ... man, you're going to have problems ... I wanted to catch you before you did it ... you should clean that back off, or at least blow the oil out". I did neither. Read the outcome here (finally got a new MAS ... why did I wait so long)
I'd say if you put on a K&N, use a MAS / MAF cleaner about 1000 miles later; or Gumout followed by brake cleaner. Speedybenz has a post on the recommended procedure so you should do a search on it for posts from his handle with MAF or MAS and brake cleaner in the post. Heck, or, here's a quote from him: "
based on all the problems of k&n u mentioned plus the other threads ive read then ill forget about k&n and try to learn how to build a custom cai like some members here, plus it may sound better and is more afforadble
No, it won't melt...i sit in rush hour traffic at about 35-40 degrees, water temp about 95-105 for about an hour and a half almost every day, and it hasn't melted.
You could use metal, but dont forget you're trying to create a COLD air intake. As metal is a conductor, it will conduct all the heat from your engine bay into your induction tubing. that's one of the reasons why merc doesn't use metal in it's induction components.
Sucking in hot air will certainly decrease your hp compared to cold air. Besides, when building your CAI, you'll be creating a 'ram-air' induction effect when you position your air filter in the bumper cavity, forcing air into your intake (almost like a turbo, but not as hectic) from the air resistance as you drive fast.
You'll only damage your engine by sucking in huge quantities of water through the intake (like if you drive through a river, but that's just common sense). I'm planning to keep my car untill i die (no joke), therefore reliability and risk of damage are essential points i consider when doing a mod.
The factory doesn't do it cos of the sound it makes. It almost sounds like a performance exaust, but a bit deeper. It's very noticeable. If i floor the car, i'm guaranteed to turn heads. The best thing is that it only makes the sound when the engine is under load...when you're cruising on the highway you won't hear it at all. Personally, i enjoy the sound!
I must actually post a video of the sound
Regarding the size of cone filter to use, i did all the surface area calculations of the cone filter and flat filter (the larger the filter surface area, the less air restriction) and i concluded that the 6in cone is the best for the car.
Do a search for CAI, you'll find alot of info on them...they're quite a popular mod on this car.
ok but like in the pics i posted above the cone filter ends up inside the airbox near the hole in the grille, its not in the bumper. if i imitate what that person did will i be increasing HP or lowering it, just for the sake of making it sound better. also will this cone filter work from ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/3-Red...QQcmdZViewItem
or this set
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/K-N-F...QQcmdZViewItem
what about thise user's intake, its the cone filter but isnt in the bumper, does this style intake increase Hp and make it sound better. will such a cone filter let more dirt get inside the engine?
i think ill try to build a short ram intake because i plan on installing fog lights in the bumper area. this is wikipedia definistion of short ram: "The short ram air intake is a form of aftermarket air intake for automobiles with internal combustion engines.
It replaces the OEM air intake with a short metal pipe and air filter inside the engine bay. This can slightly boost performance levels in a vehicle by increasing air volume intake, at the expense of increased intake noise. The high temperature of air near the engine can reduce performance in some cases, but this is often made up for by the increased volume of air. As a remedy, many short ram intakes include some form of heat shield. However, some users prefer to use different types of air intakes such as a cold air intake. Users with forced induction engines often opt for short ram intakes because compressors adjacent to the engine, especially turbochargers, heat up and negate much of the benefits of a cold air intake."
i have the inline 6 engine for c280, does anyone know what diameter of the pipe i should buy? also if i build one like in pics above is it better to just remove top of airbox and place the cone filter in there near the stock pipe that comes in from the grille...or should i completely remove the whole airbox and try to place the cone filter as close to the hole in the grille as possible. also should i buy just a 6in long straight pipe, or get one with a slight curve too. how big should the cone filter be? the bigger the better?
Speedybenz runs this on his C43 (both sides; nonAMG only needs one side). Search for hist oldest posts, from close to the beginning of this board I think. Unfortunately the pictures are no longer available. But he does list the material you should use so the post will still be useful.Originally posted by Benz Newbie
i think ill try to build a short ram intake because i plan on installing fog lights in the bumper area. this is wikipedia definistion of short ram
is short ram worth doing? how does short ram compare to the cai that you can route to the bumper? the cone filter has oil in it, would that damage maf?
If the filter is in the engine bay, it will suck in hot air, and reduce horsepower. Fact.
No, the cone filter won't get more dirt into the engine.
As c55 says, steer clear from those filters which need oiling for reasons he mentioned.
I use a part mesh/part cotton cone filter which they say is washable and re-useable, but i just throw it away every 5000 miles.
That filter on ebay is perfect.
I'm not a fan of these kits
I told you earlier in the thread!! 3in piping and 6in filterOriginally posted by Benz Newbie
i have the inline 6 engine for c280, does anyone know what diameter of the pipe i should buy? also if i build one like in pics above is it better to just remove top of airbox and place the cone filter in there near the stock pipe that comes in from the grille...or should i completely remove the whole airbox and try to place the cone filter as close to the hole in the grille as possible. also should i buy just a 6in long straight pipe, or get one with a slight curve too. how big should the cone filter be? the bigger the better?
There's no such thing as 'short ram', because the air is not getting rammed into the engine from anywhere.
The CAI is when you put the filter in the bumper.
"If the filter is in the engine bay, it will suck in hot air, and reduce horsepower. "
those pics i posted before, why would someone install the cone filter in the engine bay then? like the 3 diff w202s in the pics. are they sacrificing some hp to make it sound better?
Either they do it for the sound, or they've just been a victim of good marketing
for exampl lets focus on this pic:
is there ample air traveling from the bottom of the stock airbox into that cone filter? will the engine detect something wrong and turn on check engine light or something?also since the cone is supposed to increase hp, shouldnt it balance out with the fact that the hot air from the engine will enter it
also is it better do do whats in the pic above and keep the bottom of airbox, or do whats in this pic and remove it completely which allows the cone to come closer to the hole in the grille:
this pic above is from c43 engine, and that engine is already pretty powerful, so why would someone install that pvc pipe with the cone on the end? if anyone has done whats in these pics, can you comment on its benefits? thanks
my bad. what I was referring to is a long ram, from the foglight holes.Originally posted by Benz Newbie
is short ram worth doing? how does short ram compare to the cai that you can route to the bumper? the cone filter has oil in it, would that damage maf?
speedybenz with his CAI also runs K&N that is oiled. However, we benz owners that do run it should be aware our MAS is sensitive to the small amount of oil the new one puts off, and the large amount of oil a DIY cleaned one might if you make my mistake, and should perform some maintenance on the sensor if using it. The filters do do a good job in increasing airflow and this negative doesn't deter from that fact; folks should just know and make allowances for the required maintenance if they choose to increase performance with them.
I run a K&N (so called) cone CAI (it incluses a shield between it and the engine compartment) on my Jeep. Great performance gain especially now I have headers & exhaust. And the MAF/MAS (whichever it is) has not suffered the same fate as the one on the benz.
c55,Originally posted by c55m8o
speedybenz with his CAI also runs K&N that is oiled. However, we benz owners that do run it should be aware our MAS is sensitive to the small amount of oil the new one puts off, and the large amount of oil a DIY cleaned one might if you make my mistake, and should perform some maintenance on the sensor if using it. The filters do do a good job in increasing airflow and this negative doesn't deter from that fact; folks should just know and make allowances for the required maintenance if they choose to increase performance with them.
I run a K&N (so called) cone CAI (it incluses a shield between it and the engine compartment) on my Jeep. Great performance gain especially now I have headers & exhaust. And the MAF/MAS (whichever it is) has not suffered the same fate as the one on the benz.
1) are you saying that the increase in air flow from fitting a cone filter practically onto the MAS outweighs the decrease in air density from the hot air getting sucked in by the engine?
Cos last night was the coldest night we've had ever since i've had my CAI. I can guarantee you there was a significant improvement in power when i drove last night due to the low air temp
2) what extra maintenance are you referring to?
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