In Depth 202 wiring diagrams?

[Pagz]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
Ill have a look for the k40 diagram.. and the ignition ones too.
glad the other diagrams are of use!

After alittle playing around last night i found the relay at the end of K40/4 energizes the starter solinoid,the relay circuit is energized by the key being in postion just before start and controlled via the ECU as well,so when you flick the key hard right to start the ecu gets a signal to start before the relay is energized...,this must come through the ignition module via CAN.
another reason we cant live without the OE ecu
still need ignition circuit info to be 100% sure though=)

>>>CONGRATULATIONS on becoming a fully qualified mercedes tech!!,hard work payed off huh!,now every time i ask a question on here i expect a prompt accurate reply within 3 mins

[pisit]

Hey Paul,
I'm facing some problem with my stock ecu, piggyback setup and stock injector. The car is not getting enough fuel and tends to be very lean during 1500-2500 lower RPM.
As i have mentioned that i was going to run the engine with an standalone ecu as well but have to run it with stock ecu to control my automatic transmission. I will use the standalone to run ignition and fuel map, is there any thing else that i would need it to control?
if you done with your diagram can you please share it ? would be very much appreciated.
cheers!

[Pagz]

Originally posted by pisit
Hey Paul,
I'm facing some problem with my stock ecu, piggyback setup and stock injector. The car is not getting enough fuel and tends to be very lean during 1500-2500 lower RPM.
As i have mentioned that i was going to run the engine with an standalone ecu as well but have to run it with stock ecu to control my automatic transmission. I will use the standalone to run ignition and fuel map, is there any thing else that i would need it to control?
if you done with your diagram can you please share it ? would be very much appreciated.
cheers!

Hey man,
What piggyback ECU are you running?...and what does it control?

If you plan to run a stand along ECU for the engine you will definatley need to run the stock ECU for your transmission...but also for the cluster,ASR,and even the door locking...another thing to consider will be the stock Drive by wire...if you plan to keep this then the new ECU will need to be able to support this system...im pretty sure MoTeC support most Bosch drive by wire setups,but its an additional cost...not to mention the stock throttle body will become your single biggest restriction when you start pushing a few more HP! so using the OE DBW has its limitations!...

Another point to consider is the fact both ECU's will need either cam or crank sensor input,one for engine managment and the stock ecu needs it for cluster RPM...depending on which sensor is needed the circuits to do this will hopfully be made in the next few weeks as its not nessasary to have them when i tune it but when its on road i would like to know how many RPM's the engine is doing

I will keep you updated on this thread as i get things running and i know alittle more=)

[Pagz]

Hey Ross,thanks for the ignition diagrams they helped heaps!,
the cars booked in for tuning on monday...OMG=)...no wait...OMG!!!
theres one more thing i need...the original intake cam switching times...i know you sent them to me before but i cant find them...

its like on at 2300 than off at 4000 etc?!?!
Anyways if you could find out that would be excellent,as we will set it up as stock for now then play with it alittle more later=)

[benzboy]

Wowowow, so the cars almost done Paul???

[pisit]

Originally posted by 23K
Hey man,
What piggyback ECU are you running?...and what does it control?

If you plan to run a stand along ECU for the engine you will definatley need to run the stock ECU for your transmission...but also for the cluster,ASR,and even the door locking...another thing to consider will be the stock Drive by wire...if you plan to keep this then the new ECU will need to be able to support this system...im pretty sure MoTeC support most Bosch drive by wire setups,but its an additional cost...not to mention the stock throttle body will become your single biggest restriction when you start pushing a few more HP! so using the OE DBW has its limitations!...

Another point to consider is the fact both ECU's will need either cam or crank sensor input,one for engine managment and the stock ecu needs it for cluster RPM...depending on which sensor is needed the circuits to do this will hopfully be made in the next few weeks as its not nessasary to have them when i tune it but when its on road i would like to know how many RPM's the engine is doing

I will keep you updated on this thread as i get things running and i know alittle more=)

Currently I'm running Unichip piggyback which it's not capable of running idle with 400cc injector. The engine barely start and run very rough, no doubt about that.
Anywayz, I'm thinking of getting EMS 8860 to control fuel and ignition map. suggestion?
so do u have any idea about the based map for M111 engine?
Cheers!

[Pagz]

Originally posted by benzboy
Wowowow, so the cars almost done Paul???

Weeeell i wouldnt say done...but she's ready to fire up,tune and drive=)...plan is to get it running well...setup base maps and get it out on the road for a few weeks...which will allow me to fix any issues that may arise,then il get it back in and we'll see how far its willing to go=)...cant wait sOo close now=)

[DRM]

yeah that's excellent! make sure you get a video up and drive by

[Pagz]

Originally posted by pisit
Currently I'm running Unichip piggyback which it's not capable of running idle with 400cc injector. The engine barely start and run very rough, no doubt about that.
Anywayz, I'm thinking of getting EMS 8860 to control fuel and ignition map. suggestion?
so do u have any idea about the based map for M111 engine?
Cheers!

I see,sounds like you need a stand alone for the engine for sure but lets just go back a few steps...

So your running 400cc injectors off the stock ECU?

Are you still running the stock drive by wire?,and do you realise the stand alone ECU may need to control the drive by wire for the system to function correctly??

Does the Unichip piggyback just control ignition timing and the air mass sensor?

have you upgraded your fuel pump?


As for the base maps you will need to have them done on a dyno with a suitable ECU...that is unless you buy the same ECU as me and i transfer my maps...though iv got different displacement/compression/climate etc etc

Paul

[Pagz]

Originally posted by DRM
yeah that's excellent! make sure you get a video up and drive by

yeh man will try get some decent footage for sure=)

[pisit]

Originally posted by 23K
I see,sounds like you need a stand alone for the engine for sure but lets just go back a few steps...

So your running 400cc injectors off the stock ECU?

Are you still running the stock drive by wire?,and do you realise the stand alone ECU may need to control the drive by wire for the system to function correctly??

Does the Unichip piggyback just control ignition timing and the air mass sensor?

have you upgraded your fuel pump?


As for the base maps you will need to have them done on a dyno with a suitable ECU...that is unless you buy the same ECU as me and i transfer my maps...though iv got different displacement/compression/climate etc etc

Paul

the 400cc injector is running with Unichip, but I'm not sure if it's because the tuner can't manage to control the injector or the Unichip isn't capable of controlling bigger injector. it's almost a 100% increase in term of injector size.
Unichip claims that it can control ignition and fuel by altering the TPS and air mass sensor.
Since my is a C220, so it's drive by cable. and also i dont have other electronic control features like ARS. should be less PITA on that.
I'm using a Bosch high flow fuel pump from 300E, which hopefully should be sufficient enough.
MOTEC M400 is kinda pricey here, that's why i was thinking of other standalone ECU alternative.

[Pagz]

Originally posted by pisit
the 400cc injector is running with Unichip, but I'm not sure if it's because the tuner can't manage to control the injector or the Unichip isn't capable of controlling bigger injector. it's almost a 100% increase in term of injector size.
Unichip claims that it can control ignition and fuel by altering the TPS and air mass sensor.
Since my is a C220, so it's drive by cable. and also i dont have other electronic control features like ARS. should be less PITA on that.
I'm using a Bosch high flow fuel pump from 300E, which hopefully should be sufficient enough.
MOTEC M400 is kinda pricey here, that's why i was thinking of other standalone ECU alternative.

So Unichip must only control timing and fuel by altering the air mass sensor,that would be why your having trouble with the larger injectors as the stock ECU wont be able to control a small enough pulse width to regulate your idle with the larger injectors.
I now run low impedance 550cc injectors and iv been told the Motec ECU should run these at idle pretty well,but we will see next week when we lay the cards down=),im going to take the stock injectors with me just incase!

Ah so your car doesnt have DBW!...you have the usual direct cable to the TB!...so much easier=)...that may mean you dont have the CAN bus system either!!...so you may get away with running a tacho signal from the new ECU directly to your cluster!

lol motec seems to be pricey everywhere=)...Iv been told by a few the next best thing is Autronic and its much cheaper...but i havent spent much time comparing the two...its best to speak with local tuners and find out what they recommend...because at the end of the day the guy who tunes it needs to be fimiliar with the ECU he's tuning,otherwise you could be wasting alot of time and money!.

Once iv done the tuning on monday i'll give you a heads up on what problems we have and how where going to go about it...
at the moment it sounds like you need to get a complete stand alone system and also a tuner who knows what there doing!!!=)

Did you fix the header problems?


Talk soon ,
Paul

[omeyhomey]

I plan on doing the same thing but with Apexi SAFC2, i know its not as complex but its extremely user friendly and very simple to use, makes life alot easier.

[pisit]

Originally posted by 23K
So Unichip must only control timing and fuel by altering the air mass sensor,that would be why your having trouble with the larger injectors as the stock ECU wont be able to control a small enough pulse width to regulate your idle with the larger injectors.
I now run low impedance 550cc injectors and iv been told the Motec ECU should run these at idle pretty well,but we will see next week when we lay the cards down=),im going to take the stock injectors with me just incase!

Ah so your car doesnt have DBW!...you have the usual direct cable to the TB!...so much easier=)...that may mean you dont have the CAN bus system either!!...so you may get away with running a tacho signal from the new ECU directly to your cluster!

lol motec seems to be pricey everywhere=)...Iv been told by a few the next best thing is Autronic and its much cheaper...but i havent spent much time comparing the two...its best to speak with local tuners and find out what they recommend...because at the end of the day the guy who tunes it needs to be fimiliar with the ECU he's tuning,otherwise you could be wasting alot of time and money!.

Once iv done the tuning on monday i'll give you a heads up on what problems we have and how where going to go about it...
at the moment it sounds like you need to get a complete stand alone system and also a tuner who knows what there doing!!!=)

Did you fix the header problems?


Talk soon ,
Paul

agree with all points you've mentions.
Talking to the tuners, I would feel like they would support the stuff they sale which sometime seem too much marketing sh*t for me. That's why I tried to get different opinions as much as possible. I know that MOTEC would be the ultimate choice for me, there are about 8 reputable tuners here in Bangkok. There's none Autronic dealer here so that 's out of question. So I think the next best think for me is Haltech, there is a service dealer here and several tuners.
solve the header problem already. used a thick wall for the pipe. anyway haven't try pushing the car yet since it's still running very lean

[Pagz]

Originally posted by omeyhomey
I plan on doing the same thing but with Apexi SAFC2, i know its not as complex but its extremely user friendly and very simple to use, makes life alot easier.

Should work well on your C36 project i guess!...good for fine tuning new mods!

[Pagz]

Originally posted by pisit
agree with all points you've mentions.
Talking to the tuners, I would feel like they would support the stuff they sale which sometime seem too much marketing sh*t for me. That's why I tried to get different opinions as much as possible. I know that MOTEC would be the ultimate choice for me, there are about 8 reputable tuners here in Bangkok. There's none Autronic dealer here so that 's out of question. So I think the next best think for me is Haltech, there is a service dealer here and several tuners.
solve the header problem already. used a thick wall for the pipe. anyway haven't try pushing the car yet since it's still running very lean

yes it does help if you have a decent tuner whos not bias towards one brand because he/she sells it!...the guys i use sell a variety of ECU's and tuning options...http://www.torqueperformance.co.nz/expertise.php
Iv seen a few nice cars running Haltech,also Microtech as well!...but if your tuner is most knowlegable with haltech and the price is right you shouldnt have too many issues at all!

great so the header is fixed!!!did it fix the clearance and vibration issues??,do you have some pics? =) =)

[c280nz]

Originally posted by omeyhomey
I plan on doing the same thing but with Apexi SAFC2, i know its not as complex but its extremely user friendly and very simple to use, makes life alot easier.

you cannot alter ignition timing with those apexis, and only adjust fuel +/- of the base map? am i correct

[pisit]

Hey Paul,
so did u managed to install MOTEC yet?
I ended up using another piggyback, HKS F-CON SZ. no problem at idle now. however i measure the boost and it was only at 5 psi., i'm planning to increase the boost gradually to about 9psi.