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Thread: best bang for buck

  1. #51
    Moderator Pagz's Avatar
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    If the second hand engine has good compression I would leave it in the state you purchase it,opening it up is wasted money,If by some reason you damage it while tuning then rebuild.=) Like most transmissions,if nobody changes the oil/filter they fail,fix it only if it fails and dont worry about it until then.
    I know very little about the coswoth engine,but im pretty sure they ran solid lifters and different valve spring type,you cant directly compare this to the M111 head with hydrolic lifters,the wiegh more for a start.
    Cam design is really speciallised,engine builders normally dont have the software or equipment to sort these issues,locally we have companies like this: http://http://www.kelford.co.nz/ If you can,try get away with using stock cams but remove some of the overlap buy adjusting timing,it may depend on how much piston-valve clearance you have,if you cant get away with it this way you may have to adjust duration etc which is custom cam design.

    The best thing you could do would be to speak with someone who has turbocharged a non-turbo engine many times(not an ECU tuner),have the M111 engine degree'd and descuss what possible changes you might want to make before you start the project.

    5k is not alot for a completely custom turbo project,but im sure there is a long line of people who will tell you it can be done for next to nothing!.=)
    >>00 C43 Black w/birch Black. Immaculate
    >>99 C43 Silver w/CLK55 package
    >>99 S202 RED 250TD Daily.
    >>89 2.6 RED w/16vkit. POS
    >>Old Turbo 2.3 History >>Old Turbo 2.3 Video

  2. #52
    Moderator Pagz's Avatar
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    Just found this,some of the points sum up what im trying to describe to you:

    http://http://www.capella.co.nz/site...ord.co.nz/faq/
    >>00 C43 Black w/birch Black. Immaculate
    >>99 C43 Silver w/CLK55 package
    >>99 S202 RED 250TD Daily.
    >>89 2.6 RED w/16vkit. POS
    >>Old Turbo 2.3 History >>Old Turbo 2.3 Video

  3. #53
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    Well my tuner also is an engine builder, he does both. It's sounding like messing with the cams is more trouble than it's worth. If there were cams already made that i could drop in like some engines then great, but again like everything else with these engines it's 100% custom.

    Any opinion on this manifold?
    http://www.vulcanturbo.com/Mercedesbenzmanifolds.html

    It's the only one you can buy, otherwise I'll just have one made.
    Completely mad.
    '99 C230K, intake and exhaust more on the way.
    '86 MKIV Escort RS Turbo, stock for now, chip and more boost on the way
    '75 Fiat 124 Spider, koni shocks, bigger carb and drilled/slotted brakes
    to tune and hoon the mbz master race.

  4. #54
    there are pre-made cams, they are very hard to get... i have a set, made by schrick


    Also, you do not need a custom intake manifold done

  5. #55
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    Thats a turbo header.
    Completely mad.
    '99 C230K, intake and exhaust more on the way.
    '86 MKIV Escort RS Turbo, stock for now, chip and more boost on the way
    '75 Fiat 124 Spider, koni shocks, bigger carb and drilled/slotted brakes
    to tune and hoon the mbz master race.

  6. #56
    Moderator Pagz's Avatar
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    Wheres the face palm icon when you need it. I give up^^.
    >>00 C43 Black w/birch Black. Immaculate
    >>99 C43 Silver w/CLK55 package
    >>99 S202 RED 250TD Daily.
    >>89 2.6 RED w/16vkit. POS
    >>Old Turbo 2.3 History >>Old Turbo 2.3 Video

  7. #57
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    lol j/k



    I don't think I will be doing a custom intake. It's not necessary. Although I may down the road (I intend to keep the 202 for awhile). I don't think it will be necessary to reach my goal of getting C43 parity. Do you know if a bigger front mount will fit in the stock bumper? or will I have to stick with the stock front mount until I get the Rieger kit down the road?
    Completely mad.
    '99 C230K, intake and exhaust more on the way.
    '86 MKIV Escort RS Turbo, stock for now, chip and more boost on the way
    '75 Fiat 124 Spider, koni shocks, bigger carb and drilled/slotted brakes
    to tune and hoon the mbz master race.

  8. #58
    I can't vouch for the 202 front bumber... but my front bumber can fit a huuuge front mount, minor mods only!

  9. #59
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    Well Andrew is a great fabricator, I'll see what he can figure out.
    Completely mad.
    '99 C230K, intake and exhaust more on the way.
    '86 MKIV Escort RS Turbo, stock for now, chip and more boost on the way
    '75 Fiat 124 Spider, koni shocks, bigger carb and drilled/slotted brakes
    to tune and hoon the mbz master race.

  10. #60
    If its anything like the r170 one, I had to remove some plastic airdam type stuff and make a custom bracket

  11. #61
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    If it's a case of removing non structural plastic then no big deal.
    Completely mad.
    '99 C230K, intake and exhaust more on the way.
    '86 MKIV Escort RS Turbo, stock for now, chip and more boost on the way
    '75 Fiat 124 Spider, koni shocks, bigger carb and drilled/slotted brakes
    to tune and hoon the mbz master race.

  12. #62
    Moderator Pagz's Avatar
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    Found it!....
    At the end of the day Its upto you to decide what to do with the cam setup,though I just cant help but be feel compelled to make you understand the reasons why you should investigate it at the begining - even if you do not change it.

    If you want to put it behind the bumper your pretty limited with IC space on the 202 ,unless you cut out metal or remove the a/c fans. you could go with a much thicker IC to compensate for hieght and mount under the impact bar like i have,but you might want to change the front bumper to suit.
    Last edited by Pagz; 07-03-2011 at 12:52 PM.
    >>00 C43 Black w/birch Black. Immaculate
    >>99 C43 Silver w/CLK55 package
    >>99 S202 RED 250TD Daily.
    >>89 2.6 RED w/16vkit. POS
    >>Old Turbo 2.3 History >>Old Turbo 2.3 Video

  13. #63
    Moderator Pagz's Avatar
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    Gaks,
    Have you got a dyno plot for the R170?
    Your right,you dont need a custom intake plenum,however its difficult to enlargen the opening under the stock DBW should you decide to. I couldnt help but notice the dyno plots on the race car you compare to are alot different to mine,it could be the graph but torque appears to be very peaky,with power and torque dropping off fairly early in the rpm,i wonder if this is a turbo flow issue,or intake system restriction?..i would doubt its any restriction pre-compressor or after turbine.
    Last edited by Pagz; 07-03-2011 at 02:25 PM.
    >>00 C43 Black w/birch Black. Immaculate
    >>99 C43 Silver w/CLK55 package
    >>99 S202 RED 250TD Daily.
    >>89 2.6 RED w/16vkit. POS
    >>Old Turbo 2.3 History >>Old Turbo 2.3 Video

  14. #64
    My dyno was when I had problems that I'm still working on fixing. It is very "bumpy" indicating a fuel issue.. but otherwise it was about 187rwhp/190 somethin rwtq, the dyno was underrated also by 20-30hp from what the guy said.


    Its very possible the OEM intake mani will affect the hp/tq curves, as that is how a lot of people will adjust those curves... making longer runners, different size plenum, etc. As far as Cams go, he can try to find a set of the schrick ones, otherwise they are gonna be expensive

  15. #65
    From what I was told, this is the new settings on the Cams I have... there is supposedly a second variation with different specs:

    Schrick camshafts:
    ref.no.: 0285 E1 521-00 (intake)
    opening duration:252°
    peak angle: 96-116°
    lift max.:10,3mm
    lift at TDC: 0,3-2,5mm

    ref.no.: 0285 A1 521-00 (exhaust)
    opening duration: 252°
    peak angle: 108°
    lift max.: 10,0mm
    lift at TDC: 1,1mm

  16. #66
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    how hard is it to get these cams?
    Completely mad.
    '99 C230K, intake and exhaust more on the way.
    '86 MKIV Escort RS Turbo, stock for now, chip and more boost on the way
    '75 Fiat 124 Spider, koni shocks, bigger carb and drilled/slotted brakes
    to tune and hoon the mbz master race.

  17. #67
    i waited about 2 years for 1 set to come up for sale.. So it can be tough, you may be able to contact schrick and see if they have any left over

  18. #68
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    Since we have the specs of the shrick cams, do you think i could have the stock cams reground to spec?
    Completely mad.
    '99 C230K, intake and exhaust more on the way.
    '86 MKIV Escort RS Turbo, stock for now, chip and more boost on the way
    '75 Fiat 124 Spider, koni shocks, bigger carb and drilled/slotted brakes
    to tune and hoon the mbz master race.

  19. #69
    Moderator Pagz's Avatar
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    Are these shrick cams for the SC setup?
    Last edited by Pagz; 07-04-2011 at 12:18 PM.
    >>00 C43 Black w/birch Black. Immaculate
    >>99 C43 Silver w/CLK55 package
    >>99 S202 RED 250TD Daily.
    >>89 2.6 RED w/16vkit. POS
    >>Old Turbo 2.3 History >>Old Turbo 2.3 Video

  20. #70
    Moderator Pagz's Avatar
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    Honestly,do yourself a favour - google,research,inquire at cam manufacturers...do everything possible to understand the differences in timing/duration/lift between a turbo cam,NA cam and super charger cam setup,especially one with internal recirculation and large overlap...you will find reversion is your enemey and will effect you in a very negative way...*edit - this is why i no longer have a turbo m111.
    Last edited by Pagz; 07-04-2011 at 12:45 PM.
    >>00 C43 Black w/birch Black. Immaculate
    >>99 C43 Silver w/CLK55 package
    >>99 S202 RED 250TD Daily.
    >>89 2.6 RED w/16vkit. POS
    >>Old Turbo 2.3 History >>Old Turbo 2.3 Video

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pagz View Post
    Honestly,do yourself a favour - google,research,inquire at cam manufacturers...do everything possible to understand the differences in timing/duration/lift between a turbo cam,NA cam and super charger cam setup,especially one with internal recirculation and large overlap...you will find reversion is your enemey and will effect you in a very negative way...*edit - this is why i no longer have a turbo m111.
    What level of boost were you running when you did have the turbo?
    You never had me, you never had your car

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Pagz View Post
    Are these shrick cams for the SC setup?
    Yup, I am probably not installin these cams on the engine I will turbo.. but on the engine I will have that stays s/c

  23. #73
    Moderator Pagz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NW_Merc View Post
    What level of boost were you running when you did have the turbo?
    Around 15-16psi,so yes the cam timing becomes more important the more pressure you run. On the most recent setup I ran a T3 .82 housing(previously T25 .63 then .82 then T3 .63) with a Garrett 60 series hot side,Running the larger housing with reduced backpressure helped tuning alot and not just in top end,although we didnt realise this at the time dropping the backpressure also had a positive effect on how much usable fuel we had,ie it wasnt being spat back out the intake and pooling in the runners,then being sucked back in only to pool around the rings and end up in the oil...aka bore wash.

    I degree'd the M111 when i last removed it,there is a lot of overlap.
    >>00 C43 Black w/birch Black. Immaculate
    >>99 C43 Silver w/CLK55 package
    >>99 S202 RED 250TD Daily.
    >>89 2.6 RED w/16vkit. POS
    >>Old Turbo 2.3 History >>Old Turbo 2.3 Video

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pagz View Post
    Honestly,do yourself a favour - google,research,inquire at cam manufacturers...do everything possible to understand the differences in timing/duration/lift between a turbo cam,NA cam and super charger cam setup,especially one with internal recirculation and large overlap...you will find reversion is your enemey and will effect you in a very negative way...*edit - this is why i no longer have a turbo m111.
    I understand the difference between a turbo cam and an NA cam. Turbo cams have very little overlap and NA cams have a lot. I do not know what an sc cam is like.
    Completely mad.
    '99 C230K, intake and exhaust more on the way.
    '86 MKIV Escort RS Turbo, stock for now, chip and more boost on the way
    '75 Fiat 124 Spider, koni shocks, bigger carb and drilled/slotted brakes
    to tune and hoon the mbz master race.

  25. #75
    Moderator Pagz's Avatar
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    Goodluck with the project.
    >>00 C43 Black w/birch Black. Immaculate
    >>99 C43 Silver w/CLK55 package
    >>99 S202 RED 250TD Daily.
    >>89 2.6 RED w/16vkit. POS
    >>Old Turbo 2.3 History >>Old Turbo 2.3 Video

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