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Thread: better intercooler

  1. #1
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    better intercooler

    So as we all know the OE intercooler is a stinking POS. Well, while looking on benzworld for some other stuff I came across this;

    http://www.benzworld.org/forums/r170...r-install.html

    It's an R170 SLK, but form what I can tell they have the same front and IC more or less. The stock IC is definitely the same unit. For comparison sake here is a C230k



    and this is an R170 with the aftermarket IC



    The company is CXRacing and what I think is the correct IC (judging by dimensions posted and pictures from them and the OP) can be found here;

    http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant...gory_Code=INCO
    Completely mad.
    '99 C230K, intake and exhaust more on the way.
    '86 MKIV Escort RS Turbo, stock for now, chip and more boost on the way
    '75 Fiat 124 Spider, koni shocks, bigger carb and drilled/slotted brakes
    to tune and hoon the mbz master race.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Yujin's Avatar
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    Wow,

    You read my mind ZMatt, I think I am going for an IC upgrade, along with hoses or hose covers (The metal kind) to reduce heat in the engine bay. Heat reduction with the setup I have will need all the cold air it can get. I'll just have to play it by dime and nickel.
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  3. #3
    What you need is an intercooler with 28x7x2.5" approximate dimensions or smaller, if its any longer than 28 you will not have enough room for the inlet/outlet bends

  4. #4
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    well good thing that's how big it is. I think we got lucky there. It's a universal intercooler and happens to fit in a lot of things.
    Last edited by zmatt; 08-14-2011 at 09:18 PM.
    Completely mad.
    '99 C230K, intake and exhaust more on the way.
    '86 MKIV Escort RS Turbo, stock for now, chip and more boost on the way
    '75 Fiat 124 Spider, koni shocks, bigger carb and drilled/slotted brakes
    to tune and hoon the mbz master race.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Yujin's Avatar
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    Thanks gaks, That just saved me a ton of time haha
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Yujin's Avatar
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    I hear intercoolers on a c230K is useless because of the "Naturally aspirated engine". And the 14 psi it gives out. Any ideas?
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  7. #7
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    whoever said that is a moron. naturally aspirated means it isn't turbo or supercharged. it's just NA. Our engine is not naturally aspirated, it is forced induction. Going off of what our British friend was able to accomplish with water injection it is fair to say that we have some massive heat issues with the air coming in. The intercooler is pretty lame and I don't know about you guys but for me shit gets hot down there. A better FMIC would definitely help. it would keep the air cooler and raise the boost at the intake manifold. Especially considering how cheap these intercoolers are and how they appear to just be drop in units I can't see why you wouldn't want to use one. I have a friend who runs a CXRacing intercooler on his 4AGZE swapped AE86 and it works great for him.


    Yujin, I can get a bit more indepth in explaining how it all works if you want.
    Last edited by zmatt; 08-14-2011 at 09:18 PM.
    Completely mad.
    '99 C230K, intake and exhaust more on the way.
    '86 MKIV Escort RS Turbo, stock for now, chip and more boost on the way
    '75 Fiat 124 Spider, koni shocks, bigger carb and drilled/slotted brakes
    to tune and hoon the mbz master race.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Yujin's Avatar
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    I'd like to read more on it if you dont mind the typing, Im all about new info on my car. If the IC can be installed without fabbing custom shit, I'll be more than to purchase one.
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  9. #9
    The only stuff needed: A few 4-6" long metal brackets with bolts to hold the intercooler, and the silicone inlet and outlet portion (I have 2 90 degree ones) to connect it to the rest of the piping/intake.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Yujin's Avatar
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    Where might one purchase so called 4 - 6'' metal brackets with bolts? Lolz
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  11. #11
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    Sounds like another trip to the Home Depot

  12. #12
    Senior Member Yujin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeD View Post
    Sounds like another trip to the Home Depot
    Trollface.jpg
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  13. #13
    My cxracing intercooler came with the "bolts" that attach to the top, I had to custom do the brackets... just out of some 1/4" metal pieces

  14. #14
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    Gakz has it, you only need silicone couplers and some brackets. Most people get em fomr the hardware store or what they have laying around and rig it.


    As for how an intercooler works first I need to explain better why heat is bad. When we talk about making more power in our cars what we are really talking about is getting more air and fuel into the cylinders and igniting it more efficiently. This efficiency is called volumetric efficiency. Our engines run off of fuel mixed with air, so more fuel and air = more boom. Burning the same fuel and air you already have = more boom. Putting a turbo or a supercharger on your car is one way to get more air into the engine. Using "forced induction" as it is called is in fact the best way to get more air into your engine. The maximum volumetric efficiency of a boosted engine is much higher than an NA could ever hope to get. Case in point, look at formula 1. In the 1980's they ran 1.5L twin turbo V6 engines that could make 1200hp, now a days an F1 car *only* makes 700hp from a 2.4L naturally aspirated V8. Even though it's 20's years alter, and we have better technology and the engine is a full liter bigger, the Turbo monsters of Senna's time made much more power than the V8's of Vettel's time.

    So you are using a supercharger or turbo to get more air into your engine for more power, there are a few problems you have to overcome. One is fuel delivery. Not matter what power you are making you always want a 14:1 air/fuel ratio in your engine. Any more air and you run lean and you can have detonation, and less air (or more fuel) and you run rich and you are wasting fuel. That's why when you crank the boost you see people upgrade the fuel pressure regulator to send more fuel. or if they really get more boost like Pagz, they install bigger fuel injectors and a better fuel pump. For what we are doing, yuo don't have to do that yet. The ASP pulley upgrade only involves a fuel pressure regulator upgrade. So you don't need a better fuel system unless you get a bigger blower or go turbo. The second problem is heat. Turbos and superchargers make a lot of heat. There is a reason the C230K has 3 cooling fans. No air is denser is lower temperatures, so the cooler your air the more you are getting in for the same psi so the more power you get. The way you cool the air or "intake charge" is through a few means, a co0ld air intake, a good intercooler, and water/meth injection.

    Now our British friend Stavros didn't upgrade his intercooler, most likely because he didn't know about CXRacing or had access to an intercooler that can fit. But he did try water injection. His first system didn't work, but the second one worked quite well and he reported much better power. This confirms what we already suspected; our stock intercooler is shit and we have a lot of hot air coming into the engine. Reaplcing the stock cheapo unit with a better one that has a larger surface area will drop temps quite a bit and if you were to measure the air coming in to the throttle body before and after it would likely go up a few psi. In other words it would feel like you cranked the boost, because you were no longer loosing as much pressure from heat.
    Completely mad.
    '99 C230K, intake and exhaust more on the way.
    '86 MKIV Escort RS Turbo, stock for now, chip and more boost on the way
    '75 Fiat 124 Spider, koni shocks, bigger carb and drilled/slotted brakes
    to tune and hoon the mbz master race.

  15. #15
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    Gakz has it, you only need silicone couplers and some brackets. Most people get em fomr the hardware store or what they have laying around and rig it.


    As for how an intercooler works first I need to explain better why heat is bad. When we talk about making more power in our cars what we are really talking about is getting more air and fuel into the cylinders and igniting it more efficiently. This efficiency is called volumetric efficiency. Our engines run off of fuel mixed with air, so more fuel and air = more boom. Burning the same fuel and air you already have = more boom. Putting a turbo or a supercharger on your car is one way to get more air into the engine. Using "forced induction" as it is called is in fact the best way to get more air into your engine. The maximum volumetric efficiency of a boosted engine is much higher than an NA could ever hope to get. Case in point, look at formula 1. In the 1980's they ran 1.5L twin turbo V6 engines that could make 1200hp, now a days an F1 car *only* makes 700hp from a 2.4L naturally aspirated V8. Even though it's 20's years alter, and we have better technology and the engine is a full liter bigger, the Turbo monsters of Senna's time made much more power than the V8's of Vettel's time.

    So you are using a supercharger or turbo to get more air into your engine for more power, there are a few problems you have to overcome. One is fuel delivery. Not matter what power you are making you always want a 14:1 air/fuel ratio in your engine. Any more air and you run lean and you can have detonation, and less air (or more fuel) and you run rich and you are wasting fuel. That's why when you crank the boost you see people upgrade the fuel pressure regulator to send more fuel. or if they really get more boost like Pagz, they install bigger fuel injectors and a better fuel pump. For what we are doing, yuo don't have to do that yet. The ASP pulley upgrade only involves a fuel pressure regulator upgrade. So you don't need a better fuel system unless you get a bigger blower or go turbo. The second problem is heat. Turbos and superchargers make a lot of heat. There is a reason the C230K has 3 cooling fans. No air is denser is lower temperatures, so the cooler your air the more you are getting in for the same psi so the more power you get. The way you cool the air or "intake charge" is through a few means, a co0ld air intake, a good intercooler, and water/meth injection.

    Now our British friend Stavros didn't upgrade his intercooler, most likely because he didn't know about CXRacing or had access to an intercooler that can fit. But he did try water injection. His first system didn't work, but the second one worked quite well and he reported much better power. This confirms what we already suspected; our stock intercooler is shit and we have a lot of hot air coming into the engine. Reaplcing the stock cheapo unit with a better one that has a larger surface area will drop temps quite a bit and if you were to measure the air coming in to the throttle body before and after it would likely go up a few psi. In other words it would feel like you cranked the boost, because you were no longer loosing as much pressure from heat.
    Completely mad.
    '99 C230K, intake and exhaust more on the way.
    '86 MKIV Escort RS Turbo, stock for now, chip and more boost on the way
    '75 Fiat 124 Spider, koni shocks, bigger carb and drilled/slotted brakes
    to tune and hoon the mbz master race.

  16. #16
    Moderator Pagz's Avatar
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    If the SLK is the same as the C than they have trimed off the under side of the front bar,removed the original bumper brakets and fabed new. Looks tidy and is more or less exactly what i have.

    The OE IC's with plastic end tanks look like the flow much better than the cast alloy ones which have been designed to flow arount he AC core pipes,geez why did they not just shift the pipes^^.
    >>00 C43 Black w/birch Black. Immaculate
    >>99 C43 Silver w/CLK55 package
    >>99 S202 RED 250TD Daily.
    >>89 2.6 RED w/16vkit. POS
    >>Old Turbo 2.3 History >>Old Turbo 2.3 Video

  17. #17
    my flow is a pretty smooth piece now, custom aluminum welded, i dont have a lot of good pics available right now but can get some in a month. Those A/C lines are a pain though

  18. #18
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    OE alloy left side tank

    >>00 C43 Black w/birch Black. Immaculate
    >>99 C43 Silver w/CLK55 package
    >>99 S202 RED 250TD Daily.
    >>89 2.6 RED w/16vkit. POS
    >>Old Turbo 2.3 History >>Old Turbo 2.3 Video

  19. #19
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    That's an odd bend, the SLK guys didn't have to cut anything, or so they say and they bought some silicone tubing and metal couplers online. Nothing that can't be sourced from autozone.


    Completely mad.
    '99 C230K, intake and exhaust more on the way.
    '86 MKIV Escort RS Turbo, stock for now, chip and more boost on the way
    '75 Fiat 124 Spider, koni shocks, bigger carb and drilled/slotted brakes
    to tune and hoon the mbz master race.

  20. #20
    Moderator Pagz's Avatar
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    From your pictures it looks like the SLK lower bumper brackets are different to the 202,you might have to cut'em.
    edit: and it looks like the slk doesnt have the seam under the impact bar,you might have to cut that too.
    Last edited by Pagz; 08-15-2011 at 09:17 PM.
    >>00 C43 Black w/birch Black. Immaculate
    >>99 C43 Silver w/CLK55 package
    >>99 S202 RED 250TD Daily.
    >>89 2.6 RED w/16vkit. POS
    >>Old Turbo 2.3 History >>Old Turbo 2.3 Video

  21. #21
    I ordered piping and silicone pieces off siliconeintakes.com, You are correct on the SLK we had no cutting, just pulled some plastic pieces out.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Yujin's Avatar
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    Well, I blew some money on some other mods, so the intercooler will have to wait a while, and thanks for the explanation Zmatt! I read the whole thing

    Zmatt, if you do install this thing on your C230K, let me know, take pics through your adventure. My one concern is if I will have to buy a new bumper or not. Pagz, got any input on that?
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  23. #23
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    Will do. I won't order it for a few weeks. But when I do I'll be sure to document it.
    Completely mad.
    '99 C230K, intake and exhaust more on the way.
    '86 MKIV Escort RS Turbo, stock for now, chip and more boost on the way
    '75 Fiat 124 Spider, koni shocks, bigger carb and drilled/slotted brakes
    to tune and hoon the mbz master race.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Yujin's Avatar
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    Whats the good word?
    My W202 2000 C230 Kompressor
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  25. #25
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    I'm finishing up the autox season and I just started my senior year at college so it's a hectic time of the year. I will probably be doing it within the next few weeks.
    Completely mad.
    '99 C230K, intake and exhaust more on the way.
    '86 MKIV Escort RS Turbo, stock for now, chip and more boost on the way
    '75 Fiat 124 Spider, koni shocks, bigger carb and drilled/slotted brakes
    to tune and hoon the mbz master race.

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