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Thread: Engine swap C36 into C280

  1. #51
    Senior Member anf6789's Avatar
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    Look for HWA stampings

  2. #52
    Here's more markings I found on the engine block

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    Also the ECU with AMG sticker. Sadly I won't be using it.

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  3. #53
    Just got the data sheet from Daimler which confirms that the donor car indeed a C36.

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  4. #54
    Senior Member John Jones Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent Hor View Post
    Just got the data sheet from Daimler which confirms that the donor car indeed a C36.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Nice to see, peace of mind too.

    You're in business now, no excuses, fitted & running this time next week?
    JJJ.

  5. #55
    I still need to get clearance from the local road transport department regarding the XXX XX overlapping stamp marks on the engine number.

    I estimate that would need 2 weeks to clear. Hopefully, I should complete this project before I leave for Brisbane Australa, on 25/09/2013 to visit my daughter studying at UQ.

    Oh! car forums are so powerful. I had this generous offer from a nice gentlemen from the BMW E24 group in Gold Coast. Thank you Addam!

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    Last edited by Vincent Hor; 09-06-2013 at 08:24 AM.

  6. #56
    The engine has finally been transplanted yesterday. We made use of the C36 intake manifold & ignition coils. Air pump was deleted by my mechanic. All the rest i.e. ECU, sensors, wire harness, throttle body, 5 speed auto transmission and rear differential are from the C280. Note : the 280 is 1997 and has the newer type wire harness, sensors, electric throttle etc.

    Had a short drive around and note that the car take off is slower than the 280. Once past 3500 rpm, the car do pick up speed faster than the 280.

    Is it suppose to behave like this or did we miss out anything? Could it be possible that the fuel injectors are partially clogged due to not being used for a long time?

    Are the injectors from the C36 different from the C280? I was thinking of putting in the C280 injectors to try and see if it makes any difference. Would deleting the air pump cause this?

    Quite disappointed with the out come. Suggestions and opinions from members who have gone this route is most welcome.

  7. #57
    Moderator Sulaco's Avatar
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    You definitely missed something. A C36 easily, easily takes off faster than a C280. It should be a very noticeable difference in all areas.

    C280 0-60 time is about 8 seconds
    C36 0-60 time is about 6 seconds
    94 C280, 250k miles, 1999-2011 (gone, never forgotten)
    CURRENT:
    744 Silver 99 C43 AMG, 260k miles, 2011-
    040 Black 98 C43 AMG, 190k miles, 2013-

  8. #58
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    Did you flash the ME to C36 spec ?

  9. #59
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    Something must not be right. The difference should be immediately evident. Do you have the C36 ECU?
    Last edited by mbsickness; 10-18-2013 at 06:28 AM.
    1994 C280
    1996 C36
    2005 C55
    2013 Volvo XC60 R-Design
    1999 Porsche 911
    ......dang now I know where all my money went.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent Hor View Post
    The engine has finally been transplanted yesterday. We made use of the C36 intake manifold & ignition coils. Air pump was deleted by my mechanic. All the rest i.e. ECU, sensors, wire harness, throttle body, 5 speed auto transmission and rear differential are from the C280. Note : the 280 is 1997 and has the newer type wire harness, sensors, electric throttle etc.

    Had a short drive around and note that the car take off is slower than the 280. Once past 3500 rpm, the car do pick up speed faster than the 280.

    Is it suppose to behave like this or did we miss out anything? Could it be possible that the fuel injectors are partially clogged due to not being used for a long time?

    Are the injectors from the C36 different from the C280? I was thinking of putting in the C280 injectors to try and see if it makes any difference. Would deleting the air pump cause this?

    Quite disappointed with the out come. Suggestions and opinions from members who have gone this route is most welcome.
    You can start by checking the intake resonance flap and variable valve timing.

    http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w124...resonance.html

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by RemoLexi View Post
    Did you flash the ME to C36 spec ?
    You mean the ECU remap to C36? No didn't do that. Don't know of anyone over here who does it for Merc. How difficult to get that done? Any special equipment needed?

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by mbsickness View Post
    Something must not be right. The difference should be immediately evident. Do you have the C36 ECU?
    Unfortunately but true. I have the C36 ECU. Pic was posted earlier. I can't use this ECU as the socket are totally different.
    If I have to use this C36 ECU, i have to swap over a lot of things like wire harness, tranny, prop shaft, rear diff, meter cluster etc

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by KrumB View Post
    You can start by checking the intake resonance flap and variable valve timing.

    http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w124...resonance.html
    Thanks. Will get my mechanic to take a look at this.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent Hor View Post
    Unfortunately but true. I have the C36 ECU. Pic was posted earlier. I can't use this ECU as the socket are totally different.
    If I have to use this C36 ECU, i have to swap over a lot of things like wire harness, tranny, prop shaft, rear diff, meter cluster etc

    sounds like you need to flash your ecu or swap in a 36 ecu and or make it work Also werent the c36 m104's cable actuated throttles ? not fly by wire. dunno but this could make a difference in throttle response as well. I know for sure the pedal feel is night and day from my 96 c280 ( cable actuated Throttle body m104 w/vacuum controlled 4 speed) to my 99 C43 ( 5 speed electronic, fly by wire TB ) Sure the 43 is much faster but the over all pedal feel and throttle response when i press it down is noticeably different feeling between the two. just a thought. How much do you have into this swap so far ?
    1996 C280 elegance edition - SOLD 9/21/2013.
    1999 C43 AMG - Bagged, Daily driver.

  15. #65
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    Up to 96' is was throttle cable,

    97' + was wire.

    You need an SDS and change variant coding to C36. You should be able to do it with your current factory C280 ME

  16. #66
    Guys, I have good news. We replaced the cam sensor and the engine behaves quite well. Off the mark is back to normal. Form 4K rpm the engine races to the redline quite rapidly. From this mid RPM's the engine fells like it just want to keep going. It runs very much better. I guess a remap or aftermarket ECU will work better than this C280 ECU.

    Thanks a lot for all the inputs.
    Last edited by Vincent Hor; 10-18-2013 at 11:22 PM.

  17. #67
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    I would still keep an eye on air/fuel ratio ...

  18. #68
    This C36 engine has the famous diesel noise. From what I have read in a few forums this is quite normal. Looks like I will live with it rather than spend money chasing a ghost.

  19. #69
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    Fantastic news! Although you have now opened the door for me to consider a C36 motor swap into my C280 as I was going to do a bare block swap just as you have done. I see now that it does work......decisions decisions.
    1994 C280
    1996 C36
    2005 C55
    2013 Volvo XC60 R-Design
    1999 Porsche 911
    ......dang now I know where all my money went.

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by mbsickness View Post
    Fantastic news! Although you have now opened the door for me to consider a C36 motor swap into my C280 as I was going to do a bare block swap just as you have done. I see now that it does work......decisions decisions.
    Don't jump on the band wagon yet. A friend who has driven a real C36 has commented that my car is far from the real thing although he agrees that it is now way better than the C280.

    I do have a few issues just like RemoLexi said : keep an eye in the air/fuel ratio. The engine has stalled a couple of times when after starting, air cond turn on, gear engaged and as soon as I turn my steering. Probably due to fuel starvation. Idle RPM is less than 600.

    I have tried enquiring about ECU remap/flash but there's no trusted expertise in Malaysia that handles Mercedes.

    Does anyone knows of a known source in this forum? From checks on the internet I found RennTech in FL who seem to do a lot of work on Mercedes. Anyone here uses their services?

    Another issue is the engine temp. Seems a bit high (almost 100 C) almost all day. However it has never gone past 100 C. I had new water pump and thermostat installed during the engine swap. Clutch fan and auxiliary fan works as it did with the C280 engine.
    Last edited by Vincent Hor; 10-23-2013 at 05:01 AM.

  21. #71
    Moderator Sulaco's Avatar
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    Only way to really make a C280 act like a C36 is to swap it ALL. Engine, ECU, Transmission, TCU (if it has one), intake, exhaust, etc etc.

    In a nutshell, I'd only do it if I found a totalled C36 that couldn't be saved. It'd still be cheaper (in most cases) just to fix a wrecked C36 than to swap all that crap over to a C280.
    94 C280, 250k miles, 1999-2011 (gone, never forgotten)
    CURRENT:
    744 Silver 99 C43 AMG, 260k miles, 2011-
    040 Black 98 C43 AMG, 190k miles, 2013-

  22. #72
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    A C36 engine swap is just wishful thinking on my part. With real C36's selling for peanuts around here it is not financially feasable to take on the task. I do believe the fuel pump is different for the C36 to provide additional fuel to the engine so I would look to see if tyou do have a fuel starvation situation.
    1994 C280
    1996 C36
    2005 C55
    2013 Volvo XC60 R-Design
    1999 Porsche 911
    ......dang now I know where all my money went.

  23. #73
    Moderator Sulaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbsickness View Post
    A C36 engine swap is just wishful thinking on my part. With real C36's selling for peanuts around here it is not financially feasable to take on the task.
    I had the exact same plans for my W124 E320. Expected at least $2k investment into the whole project.

    But then found a C36 on this forum going for just a little more, that only needed a little work. Owner never got back to me, and then I found a freaking C43 locally for even cheaper that needed even less work. Instead of having 50 more hp in my w124, I have 100 more hp in another official AMG w202!
    94 C280, 250k miles, 1999-2011 (gone, never forgotten)
    CURRENT:
    744 Silver 99 C43 AMG, 260k miles, 2011-
    040 Black 98 C43 AMG, 190k miles, 2013-

  24. #74
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    As a cheap cheat- I am sure Bosch offers a 4bar fuel pressure regulator ... You may need one and also try cleaning the throttle body (flap contact points) which should cure your stalling problem, also test for vacuum leaks.

    100deg. Temps seem normal from all the 202's I've had.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Sulaco View Post
    I had the exact same plans for my W124 E320. Expected at least $2k investment into the whole project.

    But then found a C36 on this forum going for just a little more, that only needed a little work. Owner never got back to me, and then I found a freaking C43 locally for even cheaper that needed even less work. Instead of having 50 more hp in my w124, I have 100 more hp in another official AMG w202!
    How I wish I am living in the states. Car are very expensive here in Malaysia. There are only less than 5 or 10 C36's here. Hence the choice of conversion.

    Another alternative would be to get hold of a set of RHD engine wire harness and then put in the rest of the hardware. I do have the rest of the AMG hardware which is the ECU, 4 speed gear box, prop shaft, rear diff, drive shafts, air cond control panel, throttle body & meter cluster.

    Would wire harness from W124 E280 or W140 S280/S320 be same as the C36? Just wanted to broaden my search alternatives.

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