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Thread: Which shock?

  1. #26
    Senior Member John Jones Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike51809 View Post
    The eibach and h&r sway bars are thicker to prevent lean but with stiffer shocks and springs you dont need that, you either do shocks and springs and leave the sway bars or leave the shocks and springs oe spec and do thicker sway bars depending on what you want.. I thought the same thing though until i took my performance class at school
    That's good enough for me. I'll just go uprated shocks & springs first( plus maybe a few polly bushes in the right places)and see how I get on as I want the car to be a good daily driver.
    JJJ.

  2. #27
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    Alright man, im hope youre happy with it. I love my new suspension, its soo flat

  3. #28
    Senior Member John Jones Jr.'s Avatar
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    Cheers Mike.
    JJJ.

  4. #29
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    To give a little info on shock adjustment settings so you all have better understanding of them (I was a NASCAR Super Truck crew chief for several years and specialize in suspension setups as well as shock valving), This is why Koni yellow shocks are so much better performers out of the box than Bilstiens.

    The Koni Sport shocks as I have already listed, are designed mainly for an upgrade in performance with valving suitable for a stock coilspring car. The factory coilspring rates are not that high, and as you all know these cars lean alot going into conrers. The cars do not suffer too badly fron nose dive under hard braking, but yet is still present no the less like most typical passenger car platforms.

    Valving and what it does. First off, the Koni valving is FIXED on the compression side. This means that when you hit a bump anbd the tire wants to come upward into the chasiss, the koni valving for this is not adjustable. it is preset and the valving force for this is higher than a factory shock by a few points (lets give an example on points by using a scale of 1-10. 1 being faster piston speed, 10 being slower piston speed). I would give a factory shock a 2 in compression valving, I would give a Bilstein aftermarket sport shock a 3, and I would give a Koni yellow a 4. A 2-4 is quite a jump in compression valving-why? because the compression side of valving has everything related in force to what the coilspring is also holding back. If you run a higher rate coilspring, you generally want to lower the compression valving 1 point or more to maintain the same compression feel. WHat does change is roll rate of the chassis. The coilspring is what holds the ultimate angle of the chassis when in mid corner set. If a car is traveling too far in set then a heavier coil rate is required. Now too heavy of a coil rate will cause a poor ride quality in straight line travel over bumps and dips.....

    What I just explained there also applies to swaybars for the most part. Where so swaybars and coilsprings differ? coil springs work in supporting chassis weight in fore & aft motion as well as lateral (side to side) motion. Sway bars only control lateral roll leverage of the chassis. This lateral roll leverage is (to keep things simple for all of you) as design feature that is for the most part a byproduct of chassis weight makeup. The engineers need to utilize swaybars to control a percentage of positive lateral roll weight while sustaining a decent forward dynamic ride quality. Forward dynamic ride is when you hit a bump with one tire only, yet the swaybar trasfer part of the force accross the chassis to the other wheel assembly designating it to help support part of the load- this dynamic transfer of load in straight line travel will upset the occupants in the cockpit. Food for thought? Upgrade the coilspings, and keep the bars close to factory specs for decent straight line ride quality. The added rate of the wheel coil will help both fore and aft load as well as the side to side so its a better choice to upgrade- ESPECIALLY when you lower the car and want to limit wheel tracel which is now reduced due to ride hieght. Need a little more resistance in that wheel coming up to hit the fender? then go with a slightly higher compression vavled shock (hence the Koni).

    Now lets get into the other side of the shock motion- the rebound or recoil side of it. THis is the part where Koni shines over Bilstein. Both are very close in simularity are Knoi's lowest setting when compared to Bilsteins fixed rebound setting. So what does the adjustable rebound setting do? Rebound basically controls chassis weight movement, as well as controls how fast a bumped wheel assembly recoils back down to the ground after hitting a bump(that is it, those two things) WHat people do not realize about shock settings is that rebound settings are what "hold back" the chassis weight under hard braking forces, as well as "hold back" the chassis weight under rolling lateral forces. THe car will always travel to the extend of nosedive and/or/roll that the spring will aloow regardless of shock damper force, its just that the shock damper force will "slow" the motion so it takes longer to get to that full squat, or full corner set. A further exlination?- you take a left hand corner. The left side rebound settings are helping hold the upper chassis roll weight slowing it from rolling quickly over onto the right side of the car and overstressing the suspension- thus bobbling the chiassis in corner set. If we were looking for 2.5* set in corner steadystate, the initial turn in set the chassis bobbled over to 3* in about 1 second with the stock shock. A Koni yellow turned up full adjustment force would slow that chassis set to only 2.5* and do it in about 3 seconds- yet too much rebound setting will cause a tire to skip over the road in corner bumps and braking over bumps- yes too much rebound is a bad thning, you losse mechanical grip of the tire contact patch because the tire returns to the ground too slow. THis effect is called "jacking down". Jacking down will make a car ride very rough over bumpy pavement like the second poster here described.

    The beauty of adjustable Koni yellows? you can taylor the ride all the way down for daily driving where it acts alot like a Bilstein (yet Koni is a little higher in compression valve and is more suited for a progressive sport spring rate, and the Bilstein is more for a slightly higher linear rate spring but lacks the performance adjustment of spirited driving with the slightly above stock rebound rates.
    To give a comparison of rebound valvings 1-10, I give a stock damper a 4, a Bilstein a 6, and a Koni Yellow a 5-10 adjustment range.

    I choose Koni Yellow over any over the counter fix valve Bilstein any day of the week.

  5. #30
    Senior Member John Jones Jr.'s Avatar
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    Wow, there's a lot to take in Ventruck but thanks for posting and I'll read over your comments again tomorrow to try and get a deeper understanding. I admit must, I'm glad now I haven't ordered the H&R Cup Kit (Touring) that I had more or less decided on. Thanks again.
    Last edited by John Jones Jr.; 04-21-2013 at 02:38 PM.
    JJJ.

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    Thanks for the info Vetruck.

    I forgot, are Vogtland springs linear or progressive?
    They should work fine with Koni yellows?

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by kowalski View Post
    Thanks for the info Vetruck.

    I forgot, are Vogtland springs linear or progressive?
    They should work fine with Koni yellows?


    It all depends on what ride vs handling you are looking for.
    I 've done alot of research on what is availiable for W202's

    Lets start with spring basic designs, there are 3 types:
    a) Linear spring rates- the rate at one inch compression remains constant. If it is 800lbs @ 1" compressed height, then it will be 1600 lbs @ 2" compressed height.
    b) Progressive rate- this is where the coil windings start out at a shallow ramp and progress into a steeper angle aseach wind of the coil loops towards the top. The premise of this spring is to make the rate increase as the spring compresses. The bottom shallow wind will coilbind the further up it compresses and it "gradually" gets into a firmer rate
    c) Dual rate /or Compound Springs. They have one section of shallow angle winds, then sharply go into the upper secton of steeper (stiffer rate) winds. There is a bump there you will feel if the weight is not correct.

    Lets lok at the manufactureres for these cars

    H&R- front progressive/rear progressive
    Vogtland- front dual rate/ rear dual rate
    B & G- ?/? I think they are dual rates I can not confirm either
    Koni- front linear/rear prgressive? I can not confirm rears
    Eibach prokit- front linear/rear progressive

    Here's the problem alot of you are facing. You are putting much larger and heavier wheels onto the car than the engineers designed. Then, you are lowering the car so as to limit the suspension travel- most of you are doing so for looks and need to keep the heavy wheel rom flying upward and impacting the tire against the fender. There is not alot of honestly, AND alot of naiveness floating around car forums as to "my ride suck with this, or my ride is great with that, or too bumpy, or too harsh, etc etc.

    You want light weight period for good ride quality. What happens with dual rate springs is they work ok when suited to a properly weighted car with stock wheel assemblies a decent performance shock- but put a heavier wheel onto there and start hitting bumps and the softer rate section of the spring rapidly hits coilbond becuase the damper can not support slowing the heavier wheel motion. Alot of these setups are now boucing off the bumpstops to rely on not grounding against the fender. Next combine this with someone who puts a heavy speakerbox in the car, or 3 friends, and half their bedroom of clothes etc and then do not understand why the car drives like crap because it can not hold the weight- they then put a Koni yellow onto it thinking they are going to better control the chassis and max out the sttings. The spring already is soft and jacks down on each bump because the high rebound damper does not release it fast enough- you then further stress the front spring rate under braking and cornering with all the friends in the car and the speaker box going and the outside front wheel gets overloaded onto the stiffer sectionof that srping rate which is fine in rate, but the problem now is the rate came in TOO LOW of a ride height and you are jacked down and bumping off the bumpstops without the suspension releasing fast enough either- its just a mess- I see this kind of stuff all the time and people have no idea why their car rides so terrible- they blame it on the shocks being harsh and go back to another softer brand thinking its actually firmer but is not holding the suspension down in a bad zone.

    To answer the question of Koni's and Vogtlands? yes if you use the correct spring pads to keep the travel off the bumpstops, and you leet the rebound adjustment on the lower side so as to be able to utilize the softer extended section of the spring dual rate design.

    Linear fronts are great, but in the case of Eibach, I know for a fact they use much higher tan stock spring rates- you combine that with a higher compression rate Koni Yellow and the ride becomes much firmer up front, especially under brake 7corner entrance load. You have to do this without adding a larger swaybar up front. Otherwise going to this setup and a Bilstien with is slightly less comprssion valved, you may need a little larger front swaybar to get the same handling but will have a worst ride quality with the larger bar. The Eibach and Bilstein with the stock front bar will probabably give a great straightline drive, but you will still get roll motion into the corner. I value cornering ability of a car.-why?- cornering abilty translate into vehicle safety in emergency situations- same goes for braking.

    The best type of spring up front is a linear spring. The correct rate linear spring matched to the shock valving. As I stated in a post prior, you slightly up the spring rate? you had better then slightly decrease the bump rate of the shock becuae they go hand in hand- the car's weight certainly is not changing so if you put a firmer rate spring on a car and leave the shock compression dampering alone, the car's effective comprssion rate in ride quality will harshen. Koni matches a lowered performance spring set with its dampers for a reason, its a balanced set. Koni is know for performance

    Bilstein is now doing package deals with shocks and spring packages, but Bilsteins are still not adustable for that weekend desire for a spirited canyon run or autox event. Bilstein lack the higher rebound control rate to keep a car chasiss weight restrained from rolling into a fast corner abuptly like Koni adjustment can.

    It appears that the H&R progressive rate springs are better matched to Bilstein compression valing for ride comfort. Again I am going off of questionable reviews of people in forums who may have massive swaybars, massive speakerboxes and heavy after market wheels. Alot of them think the Koni's matched with H&R are harsh- but I question what pads are they using so where is their effective suspension travel distance range? Also are they carrying heavier loads and are already deep into the progressive rate range at static ride height? We never know.

    I will give a story about a car I had where I have ALOT, and I mean ALLLOTTT of experience with 100's of other cars just like it. It was an 87 Camaro I built. I know those cars like the back of my hand and to this day still help out various clubs with first hand work and alignemtn settings on their cars. I set them for the street, I set them for the track, I do it all for them on their budget.

    With that said, I had this Camaro with a very light enigine in it which weight about 200lbs less on the nose that most others. I also ran very stiff linear springs up front(stock was 550 range, I ran 825's) which was a heavy rate even for the heavier stock engine guys. I also ran the very aggressive vlaved Koni yellows. My car rode beautifully and to this date has still recorded lateral g # that nobody else can touch (1.07gs on 220 tw street tires that were on 8" factory IROC wheels and 245-50-16 tires) Everyone else complianed most of the time their cars rode like crap with Konis- even with lower rates and heavier front chassis weight. They had heavy wheels, they had poor suspension geometry (this gets technical), and alot of times were bouncing off the bumpstops and overdampered with crappy tire sidewall srping rates. Yes- a tire quality makes all the difference too. Everything has to be taylored to work. By just changing a set of tires from lets say Goodyear to BFG I would have to retaylor my settings.

    Its not all about what you buy, but more importantly how to set it and match it. Tires, wheels, shocks, springs, and suspension ride height all come into play and need to be married together. Every car on this board is different based on personal choices and habits.

  8. #33
    Senior Member John Jones Jr.'s Avatar
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    Vetruck, another very interesting post, thank you.

    So, if you were in my position '98 C230 Kompressor Sport manual, that's on it's original shocks, springs and wheels ( I won't be changing the wheels and if I do I'll be still using 16'' put by 8'', so no great increase in weight). The car is 'light' i.e. no s/roof, no climate control, no electric seats etc and weighs about 1300Kg dry according to Mercedes-Benz. So, I'm going on your advise and fitting Koni Sport (yellow) Adjustables but what springs? I ask as I'm a bit confused after reading both of your posts - sorry. The car won't be tracked, only road use, with a max two people and some luggage the odd time.

    Thanks in advance.
    JJJ.

  9. #34
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    Vetruck thanks for sharing the technical info.
    Your fingers must ache now from typing?

    Do you mean the weight of my car when you wrote this?
    c) Dual rate /or Compound Springs. They have one section of shallow angle winds, then sharply go into the upper secton of steeper (stiffer rate) winds. There is a bump there you will feel if the weight is not correct.

    My C43 is heavier than all NA C43's as she have all power options included which are missing on all US cars.

    Maybe my Vogtland's will sag with all these stuff added to my car because Vogtland #952079 springs were previously only sold for US C43's and not for euro cars?
    I will use spring pads front #5 and rear #4, this is what other blokes used with Vogtland springs on their C43's.
    Vogtland drops 35mm front and rear, it will be low with thinner pads.
    I don't load my car with passengers or heavy cargo, hopefully it will not sag and rub my tires?!

    Maybe Koni's will be the right shock for my car.

    Thanx for your help
    Last edited by kowalski; 04-23-2013 at 04:42 AM.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Jones Jr. View Post
    Vetruck, another very interesting post, thank you.

    So, if you were in my position '98 C230 Kompressor Sport manual, that's on it's original shocks, springs and wheels ( I won't be changing the wheels and if I do I'll be still using 16'' put by 8'', so no great increase in weight). The car is 'light' i.e. no s/roof, no climate control, no electric seats etc and weighs about 1300Kg dry according to Mercedes-Benz. So, I'm going on your advise and fitting Koni Sport (yellow) Adjustables but what springs? I ask as I'm a bit confused after reading both of your posts - sorry. The car won't be tracked, only road use, with a max two people and some luggage the odd time.

    Thanks in advance.
    I really do not like recommending spring rates to others since its a personal choice. I drive cars that are considered very sprorty feeling compared to most peoples taste. I also drive cars very hard and commonly very fast around corners- If it is any concellation as to my driving style (it is no means a boast, t is simply a truthful answer as to my personal needs or desires) I am rarely ever passed on the hwy- I am genearlly the guy moving faster than others- however, I try and always drive where I never have to touch my brake pedal running up onto slower traffic. I typically will pass people going onto freeway onramps around curves, etc. So yes I seek a very peformance oriented vehicle. My 94 C220- that I hardly drive- the fianceee does mainly, I would give a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being a worn out street suspension, lofty- and 10 being a full track racecar , not to see any street use) a 1. I am seeking aprox a 7-8 with this car. I would consider C6 Corvette suspension and ride quality a 7-8 on that scale in terms of comfort/handling.

    Witht he above said, My 94 c220 has a very light nose on it. The 94-95 c220 take an even lighter weight front spring than the 96-97 C220 does, then the C280 from 94-97 takes an even slightly heavier spring then both of those. (ie 94 C220 is rated at 970kg, 96 c220 rated at 990kg, and the C280 engine cars front axlei s rated at 1010kg.

    I have decided on putting Koni Yellows and the Eibach C280 kit onto my 94 c220- I will also only upgrade the rear swaybar to a larger one while keeping the front one stock in size to balance the lateral handling and get the car to rotate better into corners. After I insstall this kit, I will probably have to go with the shortest front spring pad to compensate for the higher ride height since this spring is designed for a heavier car. Then I will match the rear accordingly to get the same fender gaps front and rear.

    I was looking to do weight jacks on the car, but seriously I do not care to do all the work to it since it will not be my main driver. It is more for the little lady to commute in daliy I do not have another vehicle for here to drive for a week or two while I have this car down doing a silly project like weight jackers on it so I have decided against it and just go a simple conventional over-the-counter route. She knows how my other vehicles all ride so she knows what ot explect when I am done with it. She is a very aggressive driver as well so I want her safe at speed with a more sport type suspension. If you drive it soft, you need a soft suspension, if you drive it hard, then follow suit.

    I looked up your car and I only see a listings of 1999 and up for the 230 Kompressor cars- no 98??? I also see where the supercharger setup does add weight so they suggest the car's weight be fitted with that equal to the I6 engine C280 cars and C36. That would put your normal kit as the same I seek for more sport setup. If you were running 18" wheels with low profile tires then I would more suggest you run the lower compression dampered Bilsteins, But with the 16" wheels with a little more sidewall (more forgiving on bumps) I would suggest the Koni Yellows and the 2545-140 Eibach spring kit I am looking at for mine also. My car is suppose to have the Eibach 2532-140 kit, and the 96 c220 runs the 2544-140 kit.

  11. #36
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    I should also note that I am putting some heavier LM6 Lorinser fanblade style wheels on this car with BFG KDW2 tires on it. They will add some weight, but I do have ultimate plans for this car to be fitted also with alot lighter weight brake setups in the future. The Ceika kits I listed a few months ago are very appealing and I do plan to eventuallly go that route with this car. I have had this car an unelievable 7 months now and have hardly done a thing to the outside of it yet. I finished upgrading several things on the interior the first 2 months, then had an issue with another car the next month, and then unexpectedly "acquired" a new-to-me motorhome from a relative that I have been overhauling the last 4 months and just took on vacation last week. Its almost finally time I start getting around to this little Mercedes and start bulding the outside of it in about June- I have another month of work on the motorhome to finish it- I have been painting it myselfand has turned out rather nice I need to finish a bottom two tone in a copperish tan color and put some new roller blinds into it- then its to the Mercedes I go.

    Before and after shots of the RV project
    Last edited by Vetruck; 04-22-2013 at 10:15 PM.

  12. #37
    Senior Member John Jones Jr.'s Avatar
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    Vetruck, thank you again for your time, info & advise. Really appreciated. I'm now going with the Koni & Eibach's.


    Rock on!
    JJJ.

  13. #38
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    Great information in this Thread. Thanks vetruck!

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Jones Jr. View Post
    Vetruck, thank you again for your time, info & advise. Really appreciated. I'm now going with the Koni & Eibach's.


    Rock on!
    First off to everyone- You are welcome. I love to teach suspesion dynamics. It's what I do on several internet forums and have lots of local people I mentor in this stuff. matter of fact, last night an old friend called me telling me the local racetrack opened back up (Toyota Speedway) after a few years closure and was asking if I am on a team up there- he just offered me a position running a new team. The owner of this team is the primary owner of HPTuners.com- I will meet with them in 2 weeks and we will see where that goes- just another life's adventure.

    JJJ- Looking at the specs of your car, and putting your choice of componants (the Eibach ProKit # 2545-140 which is made for your car, combined with Koni Yellows) I would put your choice on my scale of 1-10 ( 1 being my wornout stock suspension c220, 3 being your car brand new suspension (I know what your car is like new- however I do not know its current statis), 7 being a C6 vette, 10 being a full blown racecar suspension set for track use, lets say a lightened Katech vette with cage on Motion Coilovers), I would rate your car with this setup at about a 5-6 based on what you set the rebound damper at. It will be a bit more agressive than a new 63amg in ride quality in sport mode. I would put the AMG63 a soild 5 in comfort/handling when it is in sport mode.

    Note that this is the best way I can give you a "what to expect" comparison on road feel. Most people that own an AMG63 run around town with active handling engaged and drive the car in a mode that is more like a 4 so I would rate the car a 4-5 on the scale because the mode can change its ride feel. The Koni's are an agressive valved shock, and the Eibachs are a higher spring rate than what you have stock. You also most likely have a little larger than normal factory swaybars being the Sport model, so worst comes to worse you might have to find a smaller front bar if the front rate is a little too high for your confrot level- but what I am suggesting is merely a guess. Putting springs on a car is always a crap shoot with anything- especially when manufacturers do not list their spring rates. Alot of what I know about the Eibach Prokits comes from what has been learned in other vehicle applications of them- SO my answers here are a speculation of those other vehicle experiences.

    I just like the linear front springs and progressive rear spring setups of the Prokit. The rear progressive rate keeps a little forgiveness in the rear from bucking you in the seat going over bumps in the road- it also yeilds a lower "release rate when you brake hard and unload the rear chassis weight towards the front of the car. If the rear springs upon release (or lift) are progressively less rate than what a linear sprng is, it will not throw weight forward as much which helps keep the rear of the car planted and not raked forward. Porgressive rear will help more promote the rear to stay a tad more squated and the chassis stay more level. This is my theorey I have accomplished on may vehicles I have setup this way and it has always worked for me.
    Last edited by Vetruck; 04-23-2013 at 07:33 AM. Reason: spelling- as usual my tyoing skills suck

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    Here is a shot of my daily driver I was screwing around on a little autox track with late last year. This truck has a very stiff setup that is built for hauling payloads- it will carry 3000 lbs no problem in the bed- AND is lowered down- trucks are not suppose to do this AND carry weight. With that said, it is still on a leafspring rear suspenion which is very uncomfortable when driven lightly while empty. it is fine if it is always driven fairly agressively. I would rate this truck as for ride quality in stiffness an 8 on my 1-10 scale. Again, this is what I am used to and drive daily. Just so you know who you are getting an opimion from and a visula of a vehicle on my scale. You can see how ridgid this truck is being an 8- it has more handling and less comfort. Keep in mind that is a 5000 lb mass of metal you are seeing act that nimble through corenrs. I run 8 ( 2 shocks per wheel)custom dampered shocks on it to control the weight so it can do what you are seeing.

    http://public.fotki.com/makofoto/201.../mvi-0195.html

    Here is a good friend of mine with a $175K street Katech Vette (not quite a racecar, but more than a C6 Z06 stock Vette by far). This suspension is very stiff for a street/occational track corvette and compromises ride quality for handling. I would rate Tommy's car an 8 also because it lacks comfort. Yes I beat Tommy in my truck that day- it kindof humbled him. I when there teaching him how to drive his car.
    http://public.fotki.com/makofoto/201...broadband.html
    Last edited by Vetruck; 04-23-2013 at 07:52 AM.

  16. #41
    Senior Member John Jones Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetruck View Post

    I would rate your car with this setup at about a 5-6 based on what you set the rebound damper at.
    I was wondering this exact point. Should I start off with a half to full turn when adjusting the rebound initially as per Koni's advise? Knowing me I be adjusting them all the time and still unsure what the best position is. Of course what won't help me is the great variations in the different roads I use regularly - from smooth, straight & wide to narrow, bumpy & twisty.

    I know Vetruck I'm asking a lot & don't expect you to have all the answers, an opinion would do just fine

    Cheers again.
    JJJ.

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    Forget Koni's advice on that. Start off with the rebound on full soft setting. it is probably what you will use 99% 0f the time unless you go out for a little spirited canyon drive. The beauty of konis also is even if you do not use the higher settings, as they age you can dial a lttle more damper back into them by upping the adjustment knob.

    I have had many sets of Konis on various cars. One in particular was my old IROC type Camaro. it was the ex wifes daily driver and she would run around town everyday with it 3/4 turn up from soft 2 5/8 turns total adjustment). I would go somewhere I would just pop the hood and quickly up them to 2 full turns. I took that car to track events on rare occations and would run them on full firm for autox and time attack type events to reduce body roll most effectively, and long tracks I would leave the fronts on 2 turns and up the backs to #2 of the four 0-3 click settings. Autox I would run #2 rear also, the ex I would leave it on #1 (#0 being the softest).

    it is all based on the individual car. But definately just start with them completely dialed down. Go drive it that way for at least 100 miles and get used to the feel before you mess with it any seeing how they react compared to stock. then for the fun of it go dial them up half way and drive it for about 10-20 miles- you may leave it, you may try full next, or you may get 1 mile and stop- pop the hood, and dial them back down to the lowest setting and say thats good enough for me. The shocks on full soft are definately going to feel a heck of alot more in touch with the road then the crap you have on their now- that's why I say you should just start with them full soft so you see you have alotsportier and in touch with the road feel than the crap stock units. Adding more rebound is mainly about cornering and braking needs. getting chassis movement more than you like? then up them a 1/4 or a half turn and go try it again. Too much rebound will start to make the tire contact patches skip on uneven surfaces under hard braking- that is thre real test. Alot of rebound will make the car chassis follow the road. the car will not loft over freeway bumps it will stay contured to the road at speed. The more the rebound, the more this feeling.

    For the most part there is no right or wrong setting, there is personal choice of comfort vs handling. Wrong is anything high enough to make the tires slide under hard braking over bumps- if you try this you will definately know what I am talking about, you will feel it. It will probably only do this under extreme braking conditions on the highest setting range. I promise you that you will try the highet setting, but after that curiosity you will never drive the car around town on surface streets on the highest rebound setting ever= unless the shocks are 20 years old. 98% of the milage the average person puts onto a Koni Yellow on a street car will be between 1-5 settings on a total of 1-10 possible settings (10 being full firm if you could out a label on the dial range- rear shocks on my Camaro are a 4 position click settings, fronts where struts and had a dial range without individual clicks, you just counted the turns and put the other side equal in turns from low to high.)

    A picture of my Koni's on my old Camaro-
    Last edited by Vetruck; 04-23-2013 at 11:41 AM.

  18. #43
    Senior Member John Jones Jr.'s Avatar
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    I think that has answered my question. I might not take in all you have said over the last several posts, well for sure not in one go anyway but it's still being enlightening and your posts will be good reference points for me & no doubt others.

    There's nothing more I can say other than a big thank you, Vetruck. Maybe sometime you might do a thread on anti roll bars (sway bars) and other parts of the suspension system like poly bushes etc?

    Wishing you well,

    Cheers,

    John.


    P.s. I meant to say, yes my C230K Sport is a 1998 (Euro model) and yes my suspension at present is (on your scale of 1-10) -2!! And keep us posted on ant updates on your C220.
    JJJ.

  19. #44
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    I just installed eibach and bilstein sport shocks and I don't feel that much of a difference from my OEM sport suspension in terms of comfort. The OEM sport suspension on the c280 sport where harsh to begin with but still civilized. The same goes with the eibach and bilstein sport shocks, the car is alot more solid now, it feels like you can drive forever it just eats the miles up. in terms of cornering it is better then the OEM sports but not by much. Also alot more responsive and it feels like the car is telling you where the wheels are (this could be do to it been lowered). The only thing that I dont like is that the rears dropped more then the front. I well have to buy #3 spring pads so I can raise it up about 1.5cm .

  20. #45
    Senior Member John Jones Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegame View Post
    I just installed eibach and bilstein sport shocks and I don't feel that much of a difference from my OEM sport suspension in terms of comfort. The OEM sport suspension on the c280 sport where harsh to begin with but still civilized. The same goes with the eibach and bilstein sport shocks, the car is alot more solid now, it feels like you can drive forever it just eats the miles up. in terms of cornering it is better then the OEM sports but not by much. Also alot more responsive and it feels like the car is telling you where the wheels are (this could be do to it been lowered). The only thing that I dont like is that the rears dropped more then the front. I well have to buy #3 spring pads so I can raise it up about 1.5cm .
    Good to hear.

    My car is also a Sport model and is currently on OE suspension and it too is harsh but corners pretty good with somewhat less roll than I originally expected (only have the car three weeks) and the back is also lower than the front too.
    JJJ.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegame View Post
    I well have to buy #3 spring pads so I can raise it up about 1.5cm .
    http://www.club202.com/forums/showth...47-spring-pads

    Aint gonna happen, even if you are not using spring pads.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denlasoul View Post
    http://www.club202.com/forums/showth...47-spring-pads

    Aint gonna happen, even if you are not using spring pads.
    why would not raise. my original rear pads are #1 just 8mm. when I put #3 it would be 18mm.

  23. #48
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    The difference between 1 and 3 is 10mm or 1cm, not quite 1.5cm.

    One way would be to doube stack the pads, I remember some Members doing so. Not sure how that worked out though.

  24. #49
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    yea I noticed that after I wrote your responds. but in my head I was thinking that my wheel gap now on the rear is about 5mm so if I add 1cm it would 1.5cm. Double stacking the pads it wouldn't be a good idea. I thing that even though there is a lot of pressure there still is the possibility of them rolling/sliding on each other.

  25. #50
    Moderator Sulaco's Avatar
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    Jesus, Vetruck. My head is spinning. I consider myself a relatively smart guy, but you just made me dizzy with all the info you just dropped!

    I drove an all-original, all-stock 1994 C280 on factory bilsteins for 13 years and 250k miles and thought the handling/ride were great! Now, I'm in the C43 and the suspension is pretty worn out but it feels like a "race car" by comparison. I know I hit some interstate on/off ramps a good 15mph faster than I could in my old C280, without even a slight squeel.
    94 C280, 250k miles, 1999-2011 (gone, never forgotten)
    CURRENT:
    744 Silver 99 C43 AMG, 260k miles, 2011-
    040 Black 98 C43 AMG, 190k miles, 2013-

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