(not another!?) c230k turbo conversion

[Coop]

John, it would most certainly be of benefit to support your mods, it would give the ability to do a much more in depth custom tune than a reflash would plus you still retain the unit when you switch vehicles.

[KrumB]

John as I suspected the ECU has an algorithm to prevent the engine from overload.

I removed the 220mm pulley and installed the original 185mm one then I tested the car with that phone app PerfExpert. Here's the result



Here's a test with the 220mm pulley



So I can safely say that we need either a VERY GOOD tuner that knows our cars (too hard to find) or a GOOD piggy-back system that can emulate expected ECU values.
Otherwise it's worthless to throw money and time on upgrades.
In my opinion the optimum would be bigger crank pulley, 4 bar FPR and colder plugs. No remaps.

[John Jones Jr.]

John, it would most certainly be of benefit to support your mods, it would give the ability to do a much more in depth custom tune than a reflash would plus you still retain the unit when you switch vehicles.

A bloody good reply there Coop. Just what I like to hear. May consider it in the New Year so, lets see.

[John Jones Jr.]

John as I suspected the ECU has an algorithm to prevent the engine from overload.

I removed the 220mm pulley and installed the original 185mm one then I tested the car with that phone app PerfExpert. Here's the result





Here's a test with the 220mm pulley



So I can safely say that we need either a VERY GOOD tuner that knows our cars (too hard to find) or a GOOD piggy-back system that can emulate expected ECU values.
Otherwise it's worthless to throw money and time on upgrades.
In my opinion the optimum would be bigger crank pulley, 4 bar FPR and colder plugs. No remaps.

Wow, Krum. The above raises many questions by me (no surprise eh.., but you're use to that now I guess ). So, without me pointing out the obvious (well, the one's that are obvious to me anyway) on the above readings are you thinking that a piggyback is he only way to go not allowing for cost of the unit and the set up I have is probably best value? Also, are you gains with the 220mm pulley not being hampered due to your car being a 200K rather than a 230K? What's your plan of action now, just go straight in and do a turbo install and for get about chasing BHP with S/c set up?

[Coop]

A bloody good reply there Coop. Just what I like to hear. May consider it in the New Year so, lets see.

lol thanks, Im rarely that articulate, musta been all the caffeine...

KrumB,
interesting indeed
whats got me stumped is how to delete that electronic bypass completely..
I really dont want to incorporate that bypass into the turbo system, Id much prefer mechanical means..
I agree with going piggyback as it seems to be less of a ***karound and allows for further modification.
Definitely going through with this project, just the info so far does'nt really inspire confidence.

[KrumB]

John, your setup is optimal by my opinion. As for the 2.0 ltr engine I shiould have much less power with the 185 mm pulley. The VDO bypass is just not allowing more....

Coop, mechanical is always better. I'm not much of an electrician but the VDO incorporates a step motor which I don't know must be emulated.....I do some research.
As for tuning Mercs....it's much, much harder than tuning Audi or BMW or a muscle car. The info is too scarce....

[Tony_AMG]

Man, I want my car to go fast, i'm barely gonna do the Head gaskets and gonna see if I can redo as much of the engine if i have to send the head out to machine shop... Makes me wonder, in easy to understand english, i'm not much of the Expert on Engine and modifications, what can be done as poster said i can gain like 40HP, on stock, what is basic HP limited and what is HP when there is no limitor?

[KrumB]

Tony,
It's proven that these engines can hold up to 400 hp on stock internals. The setups are no S/C but a burbo instead and a standalone ECUs (or AEM FMSs).....

[John Jones Jr.]

John, your setup is optimal by my opinion. As for the 2.0 ltr engine I shiould have much less power with the 185 mm pulley. The VDO bypass is just not allowing more....

Yeah, agree there Krum. But what do you reckon is giving you the extra power over stock with the 185 pulley?

[KrumB]

)) That must me the smaller S/C pulley and the bigger I/C.

[John Jones Jr.]

Of course, I forgot about those.

So, really you should have with all the modifications something in the region of 240bhp+ but thanks to the ECU you are only at 213bhp. What's the plan of attack now, piggyback first and then a turbo install?

[KrumB]

I already have a pibby-back but it's not that complicated. It can only emulate MAF signal and control ignition and additional fueling.
I'm trying with the help of a friend to hack the ECU and if succesfull a turbo will be added. I'll open a thread when there's any progress.

[Coop]

Managed to snag the last Haynes manual on amazon, ill have it on Friday and ill try to figure a way around the bypass, ill also take pics n post up the wiring diagrams and pin outs.

[KrumB]

Please do! I'm VERY curious!

[KrumB]

Here's what I found:

[Coop]

Oh nice work Krum!!
So you could maf clamp with a Zener diode so that the ecu thinks its always on boost? Leave the s/c coil energized and let power cycle thru the bypass contacts maybe?

[KrumB]

I don't think that will work because the ECU reads RPM/engine speed also......

[Coop]

Talked to a local tuner and he said to leave it hooked up and plumb around it lol, said I can get away with stock ecu and he'll reflash the new map with different load points. But he also quoted me 1200 for a custom manifold...LOG STYLE! That's like 8 welds... Ill get my welder buddy to lop my flange off n weld a new manifold for a case of beer instead. Anyone know what grade stainless our stock ones are? Maybe get real scabby and weld a flange on it hahaha

[KrumB]

1200 LOL

4G63 and M111 have very similar exhaust. If you can compare the exhaust flange sealings you might have a cheap way out.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/TD05H-16G-20G...item51adcbb1ac

[Coop]

Yeah I laughed my ass off and promptly hung up, that's crazy I was just on eBay lookin at 4g63 manifolds and tdo5 turbos wondering the same thing

[KrumB]

If I'm to be honest I bought a spare exhaust seal for the M111 but I have hard time finding a seal for 4g63. Even if they don't match exactly they should be pretty close and if you have a welder friend it shouldn't be that hard to match. The only other issue will be how close to the sidewall the snail will come.....

[Coop]

Yeah eh, weld the m111 flange on the 4g63 manifold if the ports are close? I did see an old thread where buddy had what looked like that manifold setup with a td05 hanging underneath. maybe my friend will let me pull his manifold off his evo so I can check lol

[Coop]

4g63 ports are 92.5mm centre to centre, dunno what ours are tho lol

[KrumB]

I'll tell you in a couple of hours.

[KrumB]

Here's what I measured.


It's close to 97mm