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Thread: C43/CLK55 Conversion

  1. #76
    Senior Member John Jones Jr.'s Avatar
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    Just got around to reading this thread now, great stuff Pagz. You may or may not be aware but there are several of these transplants carried out by members on http://www.mbclub.co.uk/ and also a couple done by Merc specialists on their own private cars. Might be worth a read up on.
    JJJ.

  2. #77
    Moderator Pagz's Avatar
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    Ross!, HELLO=) hows the family?
    It has been a long time coming thats for sure!, the subframe is a really interesting one, I sat the C43/CLk55 side by side , they messure up the same...wierd thing is the non amg 208 does use the 202 subframe, however the clk55 has a unique part number...but I cant find any differences in it. next visit I will have a better look to confirm. EDIT - I wonder if the subframe comes fitted with rear diff mounts from new? If so this could be why the CLK55 has 208 subframe part number as the diff rubbers are same size but W208 AMG part number instead of IIRC A129 or A202 parts in the regular 208/202's.

    Zayed, Ross, As for the trans cooler I totally agree, my parents 2006 S320cdi one failed last year and caused a tranny rebuild(they purchased this car new in 2006). Ironically though, is this concept really any different to the C43 external cooler? imo it just the same only external?....I do like the fact the coolant heats the trans fluid to operation temp, I've not had much luck with good running temps with air-air stuff, its the way the termostates work by allowing some bypass at all times.

    John, thankyou for the link, Over the years I have read and followed nearly every build I can find from US,UK and various other places including translating ones from germany^^...I never came accross solid info on swapping everything from tiptronic CLK55 to non tip C43, I dont think it happens too often however plenty change diffs, engines and trans's from amg 55's and the information is out there...its just not all in one spot and is often missing important detail.
    Last edited by Pagz; 01-14-2014 at 04:53 PM.
    >>00 C43 Black w/birch Black. Immaculate
    >>99 C43 Silver w/CLK55 package
    >>99 S202 RED 250TD Daily.
    >>89 2.6 RED w/16vkit. POS
    >>Old Turbo 2.3 History >>Old Turbo 2.3 Video

  3. #78
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    Sounds like my TDi transmission build.. No info!

  4. #79
    Senior Member John Jones Jr.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pagz View Post
    John, thankyou for the link, Over the years I have read and followed nearly every build I can find from US,UK and various other places including translating ones from germany^^...I never came accross solid info on swapping everything from tiptronic CLK55 to non tip C43, I dont think it happens too often however plenty change diffs, engines and trans's from amg 55's and the information is out there...its just not all in one spot and is often missing important detail.
    The one guy that I'm fairy sure could assist you is Olly, http://www.prestigecarservice.co.uk/. He(C55 Black) is a sponser of that site and I'd say there's little he doesn't know about doing that conversion, his W202 C55 has just about been max'ed out as as far a modifications go from what I understand. Helpful guy even if it's not practical for you to be a customer. Imo he's worth shooting off an email to.
    JJJ.

  5. #80
    Moderator Pagz's Avatar
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    Thanks John,yes seen more than a few topics by that name =) will flick him an email! cheers.

    Remo,
    Its a bit like the LCD W210 cluster...I've seen it fitted many times to various 202 but very few mention it actually doesn't fit the 202 dash...haha.
    Last edited by Pagz; 01-19-2014 at 12:57 PM.
    >>00 C43 Black w/birch Black. Immaculate
    >>99 C43 Silver w/CLK55 package
    >>99 S202 RED 250TD Daily.
    >>89 2.6 RED w/16vkit. POS
    >>Old Turbo 2.3 History >>Old Turbo 2.3 Video

  6. #81
    Junior Member winks911's Avatar
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    WOW,
    I admire the way you are going about this,Its similar to y swap except mine was a 2000 with tip so everything worked well. I'm about to install a Quaife clk55 diff on my c43/c55 with a renntech supercharger I'm not sure if the rear diff is a straight swap except for the tcu programming or do I change the axles as well?
    Keep up the good work.

  7. #82
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    Which diff. ratio you want to go with....??

    ZAYED,,
    Last edited by Cm60K; 01-21-2014 at 01:38 AM.

  8. #83
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    I've plugged in a 210 cluster in a 202 before and it fit directly ....

  9. #84
    Moderator Pagz's Avatar
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    Winks,
    Thanks!,Have you a link for your project? I'd be interested to read!.
    I would like to reply with 100% certainty however I have not fitted the CLk55 rear yet,I am hoping to in the next few weeks.
    In the interim,Im confident that Mechanically the CLk55 diff will bolt into the W202 subframe,The rear diff mounts are specific to CLK55 - they are same size but could be harder I suspect.
    The CLK55 and C55 run a small cutout above the diff to allow the larger 220 diff to fit so im sure you will need this also.
    I think you will need to change the CLK55 axles in to suit the diff, and also maybe the outer drive flanges to suit the Axles, the flanges are a different part for some reason but fit into the W202 bearing carrier. I intend to swap the CLK55 rear end complete so will not be disassembling this.
    I am not sure if the diff input flange shifts slightly with the larger housing(Zayed,Remo?),If not you could possibly just change over the 3 finger input flange from your C43,if the diff flange does shift you may want to change over your trans output flange to 4 finger type and run the CLK55 prop shaft.

    Edit, Can you check if your tiptronic C43 has the boot cutout,you will be able to see it from above by removing the electrical cover in the boot.. wouldn't be suprised if they used the boot made for the CLK55 in the 2000 model C43.

    Remo,
    W210 cluster plugs in electrically and also is the same shape as the dash cutout, however sticks out the bottom alittle when installed,heres a shot side on..
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Cheers
    Last edited by Pagz; 01-22-2014 at 02:29 PM.
    >>00 C43 Black w/birch Black. Immaculate
    >>99 C43 Silver w/CLK55 package
    >>99 S202 RED 250TD Daily.
    >>89 2.6 RED w/16vkit. POS
    >>Old Turbo 2.3 History >>Old Turbo 2.3 Video

  10. #85
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    When you speak of diff input flanges are you talking about the axle flanges ? 6-bolt? Then yes, when I installed a larger diff, the axles bolted up fine but the slightly wider diff size took up some of the large amount of side to side slop the axles normally have. No mechanical failures resulted afterwards at all.

  11. #86
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    After reading carefully! Yes! The input flange shifted off to the side slightly!! Make sure the driveline and diff are lined up!! I had to find out the hard way! I had a shutter at first and then found this,


  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by RemoLexi View Post
    when I installed a larger diff, the axles bolted up fine but the slightly wider diff size took up some of the large amount of side to side slop the axles normally have. No mechanical failures resulted afterwards at all.
    Good info. Remo,

    Do you install the larger diff. from CLK55, if yes, how you deal with ECU/TCU reprogram....??

    E55/CLK55 will direct swap to the C43 subframe, including side flanges & axles, this is an easy mechanical thing,

    the point that we have to worry about is the TCU, how to let TCU to accept 2.82...?>!<?

    ZAYED,,

  13. #88
    Moderator Pagz's Avatar
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    Remo,
    Thanks,wonder why they change the axles and outer flanges on the CLK55 if not nessasary?. I will take lots of measurments on my next trip.

    Zayed, if the original car is an ME2.0 C43 tiptronic, could he use the ME2.0 CLK55 TCU? or would there be a conflict with the tiptronic 631 vs 636 trans?, people say they are same ratios but im not so sure...

    Regards,
    >>00 C43 Black w/birch Black. Immaculate
    >>99 C43 Silver w/CLK55 package
    >>99 S202 RED 250TD Daily.
    >>89 2.6 RED w/16vkit. POS
    >>Old Turbo 2.3 History >>Old Turbo 2.3 Video

  14. #89
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    631 & 636 sharing the same ratio, and all internals are the same either, not necessary to go with 636, unless if you want to put CLK55 driveshaft,

    if you have ME2.0 with Tiptronic, that means you have an ESM controller in the Tiptronic shifter itself, then you can modified the ECU to use a CLK55 TCU with 2.82 diff....

    ZAYED,,

  15. #90
    Moderator Pagz's Avatar
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    Zayed,
    Fabian mentioned there is additional clutch pack in 636? is this true?.

    So Tiptronic C43 ECU would need flashing to run ME2.0 CLK55 TCU?

    Regards,
    >>00 C43 Black w/birch Black. Immaculate
    >>99 C43 Silver w/CLK55 package
    >>99 S202 RED 250TD Daily.
    >>89 2.6 RED w/16vkit. POS
    >>Old Turbo 2.3 History >>Old Turbo 2.3 Video

  16. #91
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    Paul,

    When i opened these "2" gears, i didn't see any internals difference between them, the only difference i noticed is the cable wire at the back of the gear (that holds the shift position when the car is off), that is not a big thing, and the V/B part # is updated in the 636, to match the last software of the TCU with an ESM/Tip. shifter,,

    if you have Tip. C43, you can use CLK55 TCU without flashing it, also you can use CLK55 ECU/TCU with a key switch together to make it work easily......

    ZAYED,,

  17. #92
    Moderator Pagz's Avatar
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    Zayed, Remo,
    Do you guys have any experience with timing checks on the M113?

    On the 113.984 WIS says the used chain timing calls for 25 ATDC @ 2mm lift on the intake valve both sides of the V.

    When I test this I am using my dial gauge onto the centre of the top of the rocker directly above the lifter, I'm doing this to remove lash from the lifter...Is this acceptable?

    The readings I get are 31 ATDC both sides, which I would have thought if chain stretch was apparent there would have been noticeable difference in values between the two sides. (when I go direct onto the valve its about 35 ATDC)

    Now what is interesting, when you install the cam locking plates you install the right hand first, then when installing the left hand you need to turn the cam sprocket anticlockwise some ~2-3 degrees to allow the locking plate to bolt down.(yes never turn anticlockwise)

    Now assuming there is no chain stretch due to the fact the values are equal both sides, Is it more than likely the play is coming from guide rail and/or idler pully?.

    Your thoughts?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    >>00 C43 Black w/birch Black. Immaculate
    >>99 C43 Silver w/CLK55 package
    >>99 S202 RED 250TD Daily.
    >>89 2.6 RED w/16vkit. POS
    >>Old Turbo 2.3 History >>Old Turbo 2.3 Video

  18. #93
    Member DRBC43AMG's Avatar
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    I have also just read this thread. Great project and I'm subscribing to follow progress.

  19. #94
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    Cm60k, I have never dealt with the etc coding at all, I coded it out completely and ran a manual 6-speed. After the etc was removed I can put any ratio I want.

    Paul, as far as timing with the 113 I can't say I've ever had to do one at all. That's answer enough right there!

  20. #95
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    I used a diff from a R129. It required fabrication and removal of the rear subframe. Unfortunaly I have no pictures, and after I sold the car it was wrapped around a tree, damaging the rear subframe.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by RemoLexi View Post
    Cm60k, I have never dealt with the etc coding at all, I coded it out completely and ran a manual 6-speed. After the etc was removed I can put any ratio I want.
    Manual gear doesn't need any code, and its good idea...,,

    i wish if i can get any ratio with auto gear, but seems like TCU got A big mouth & always say to me; EVEN NOT IN YOUR DREAMS.....

    ZAYED,,

  22. #97
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    Putting the 55 engine in the C43 would have to make it pretty bloody fast wouldnt it? What sort of zero to 100 times would you get from just swapping the engine only?

    Are you looking to change the diff cause you want to add LSD or because you dont feel the C43 diff will hold up to the extra power?

    This is a swap i would possibly consider doing later on down the line if an E55 comes up are the right price...

  23. #98
    Moderator Sulaco's Avatar
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    The stock c43 diff can handle it no problem. Lots of c43s out there with 55 engines. You dont even need to swap ecu or anything. Ive actually never seen anyone properly measure performance metrics on a c43/55. Ive been curious myself. My car currently gets 0-60 in 5.6, but what would another 50 hp do?
    94 C280, 250k miles, 1999-2011 (gone, never forgotten)
    CURRENT:
    744 Silver 99 C43 AMG, 260k miles, 2011-
    040 Black 98 C43 AMG, 190k miles, 2013-

  24. #99
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    How much extra torque is there? Add to the fact the car is smaller and lighter as well as having a higher diff ratio, it should almost be a flat 5 seconds.

  25. #100
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    391 ft/lbs i found, so thats quite alot more torque over the 302 or whatever the C43 has standard.

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