C43/CLK55 Conversion

[RemoLexi]

Well, not to scare you or make you rip your hair out or anything, but this weekend for me consisted of removal / rebuild of a 722.6 on my wife's ML350...

So maybe a good idea since you have your dot6 out, open up and inspect the silent-slow self destructing gearbox!

Here's what happen to mine,

Out.


All of this, including the valve body, front and rear planets, drums, all scrap metal!



Here's a shot of the failed bearing/sprag, you can see behind the C-clip the ball bearing is wasted,



So the shavings got into the clutches, causing complete loss of gear movement. Revs like in neutral.

[Pagz]

Ouch I don't envy you!

I plan on staying well away from the insides of mine aside from a pilot/filter/fluid change,If It dies I will consider other options then!

What's it going to cost?

[Pagz]

Fitment is pretty good,maybe 1-2mm higher than the original but within tolerance.

[AMG KC]

What rear end ratio will you end up with?

Is your car left hand drive?

[SD202]

clean job on that shift gate swap. you have great dedication to making this a complete swap. No cutting corners here! love it man

[Pagz]

KC, your from Australia right?
The larger CLK55 diff is 2.82

SD202,
Thanks man, I hope to make it as close to factory as possible!,It's really great having all the parts from the clk I never would have guessed so many parts changed with the 2000 tiptronic 202/208,it's definitly not a project you could do without a complete working donor. Next job is to install the cutout above the diff, should be far easier than the tip tunnel , this also uses the updated 202/208 cable tray behind the seats to clear the recess.

[AMG KC]

Im in Australia mate yes.

Did the factory C55s have that ratio or the same as the C43? Im just wondering what impact that may have on acceleration.

The gear ratios in the transmission must be pretty high compared to the likes of the GM 4L60, with a 3.33 rear end in a Corvette i was turning about 1,900rpm at 100kph, im quite abit above that in the C43, so 5th must be pretty near 1:1 in the 722.6 trans.

Im very keen to hear some numbers once you get this rig mobile, the extra 80 odd ft/lbs of torque should get it off the line very quick.

When you say "tiptronic", is it actually tiptronic or is it like the other Mercs with that shifter, where clicking - makes it shift to the next lowest gear below the one youre in, and clicking + makes the next gear available and does nothing til its ready to shift, or does it actually shift up instantly on demand like a tiptronic semi auto style system? For example if you were doing 20kph in second and clicked + twice, will it shift to 4th or stay in 2nd til its ready to shift?

If its the latter, i will be reasonbly glad ive got the full gated shifter there, although if it can be shifted up and down manually on demand, that would be fine. Occationally i like to lock back to 3rd, which i can do with mine no problem from any gear, however in my mum's W203 if im in 3rd and click -, it kicks down to second when all im wanting to do it prevent a shift to forth.

[Pagz]

KC,
We are same as you guys, rhd!.(please tell me you have been to NZ =P )

The factory 202 C55 uses the exact same CLK55 2.82 Diff, clk55 axels/hubs,clk55 4 Finger prop shaft, 722.636 trans ,the part number are different for the subframe but I suspect only because the bushes are harder/different part #,clk55 frame is visually identical and any other lower spec 208/202 share exact same subframe #. I have posted an original parts catalog of the C55 further back in this thread note the subframe number is not found in EPC i would suggest only because back then it was 202 frame with V8 mounts added which now updates to CLK55 subframe. the C55 comes with 722.636 gate shifted or tip, all they do is change the way the parking lock interfaces with the trans, ie via the EIS/brake pedal to the trans or direct from EIS to the tiptronic shifter and update modules to suit.

Since they wiegh the same,the car will have the same specs as the CLK55,so somewhere just over 5 seconds to 100, I have driven CLk55's before they feel much quicker than the C43 especially down low.

Tbh the tiptronic is awful, I'm only running it so I can keep the rest of the system happy! It is as you described kind of a "semi tiptronic" . it will change up when it needs to without request and you spend most of the time trying to anticipate when it will drop that gear you requested several seconds ago.
I would prefer the shifter to drop into a manual mode and instantly only change up or down on request, some guys in Germany have achieved similar to this through custom tuning and different valves and trans's.

For me I dont want to touch the auto,I just want to convert to manual.

[AMG KC]

I havent ever left Australia, no real interest in travel. I know youre RHD there yes, but i see there in a couple pics it looked like your car was a lefty, i didnt look at the pics on a computer. I know your regs for LHD vehicles are very lax compared to ours in Australia, where a lefty has little chance of seeing rego until it is a certain age.

When you say the 722.636, what does the C43 have? Isnt it the same? I havent driven a CLK55 or E55, but they do have significantly better performance figures.

If i am to go with a swap later on in time, ill quite likely just grab a good condition 99 E55 and swap the engines between the two, then sell the E55 as an E43. W210 E55s here are not that dear to buy compared to C43s.

[AMG KC]

Are you going to put the 2000 C43 wheels on? I noticed on the 2000 model i saw here they are 17" versions of the 5 spoke AMG wheels the later CLK55 had.

[RemoLexi]

The 722.6 out of a tip car is much more updated throughout vs. the non tip C43.

Has a different valve body, lots of sprags, bearings, clutches are all updated.

Paul since yours is out, assuming its in healthy shape, I would advise reading clutch wear w/SDS out of the clK55 etc. you may want to open it up and tighten up some tolerances, there's tons of guys on MBworld who have done so with 211/55's. there's also aftermarket upgrade drums / clutches you can install such as the K1 drum responsible for the 1-2shift!

In my case, I have damaged planets, drums ect. So I had to buy a used dot6!

[kowalski]

would a tiptronic transmission from a 2002 E55 AMG fit a 99 C43 AMG without tiptronic as a replacement?
manumatic shifts would still be the same as before with factroy gearbox
i was merely thinking when and if the 722.631 gearbox internally explodes in shrapnel, would the tip gearbox fit and perfectly match the c43 ECU shifting?

finding a matching number facelift E55 engine and gearbox would be great for C55 mod

[Pagz]

KC,
Fair enough! My partners Australian and her sister is in Melbourne,parents in Brisbourne so we travel over often!.

From what I understand Australian regs are very tight for imports(actually anything automotive related) , we have a quoter system for special imports maybe 200 - 250 per year, so it is possible to bring in a C43 or other low volume perfomance/classic/LHD/collectable etc however you must keep the vehicle for 2 or 4 years(think it's 4). Nothing complies prior to 2005 here due to impact and emmissions. Alternatively wait until 20 years old and you can import anything within reason.

C43 has a 722.631, I cannot comment on what internals change,however I know improvements are made between the 98 - 00 in the 722.631. the tip C43 still runs the 722.631, this doesnt mean its identical inside as Remo has mentioned. As for the 722.636, I have been told it has the same ratios but one more clutch pack...I dont know this for sure.

I did consider doing the same and swapping the 43 into a 55, however decided against it when I wanted to run the 55's ECM and trans as you need the rest of driver autherisation system, that and the fact you will get much less for a converted 55-43. when I purchased the CLk55 in Melbourne, there was a second one for sale with same 160km's, went for 3750Aud. you'd be better to pick up a 98/99 E55 for this price surely?.

The wheels on the tip C43 are updated like the clk55 but I plan to run these BBS's soon:

[Pagz]

Remo,
Is the 722.631 tip in C43 simply updated for better life?, or is it updated because of the way the tip system works? from the list of local C43's tran's numbers I have here I can see revision increments from 98 to 99 models. ie all MY98's had "00" and our MY99's had "11" or "31", the C55 here has gated 722.636 with "01".

Good suggestion,I will try plug in this weekend and take a look - lots I didnt realise I can do with SDS!.

edit - in 99 for cost reason's mb stopped using a drain plug on the converter, so my 99 C43 has the drain and the CLk55 doesnt. Assuming they are the same? Do you think its worth using the C43's converter or just go with the CLK55?

[Pagz]

Dennis,
Having not seen the trans out of the 2002 E55 I can only assume its much the same as the other 722.636, If so then it should bolt in no problem, just need to remove the blank and install the park shift locking cable wire?

As for ratio's, not sure.

[kowalski]

Dennis,
Having not seen the trans out of the 2002 E55 I can only assume its much the same as the other 722.636, If so then it should bolt in no problem, just need to remove the blank and install the park shift locking cable wire?

As for ratio's, not sure.

hey bro
what is the blank on transmission?

[Pagz]

Hey,
Back of trans beside output flange is where the interlock cable enters, on tiptronic models this is blanked off as the wire goes direct from EIS to the shifter gate so does not need to go to the trans.

[RemoLexi]

Correct! Dot6's made for tip tronic had the cable interlock blocked off, so it's NOT a direct bolt in for a 99' and older.

The valve bodies are also different, something about a certain valve spring that was updated in size.

Paul, do not install any torque converter until you can match the flex plate bolts!!! I had a run-in where a tq. Converter with drain plug didn't bolt up to a later model flex plate! Sucked having to remove the trans again!!

[RemoLexi]

Speaking of torque converters, the one you would want is a factory 211 E55 one, it carries a W240 maybach p/n

[Pagz]

Remo,
Thanks for the heads up I will check this -I will likely just run the CLK55 one. I have ordered new bolts for the flex plate so will check those too, whilst looking in EPC i noticed the flex plate updates the same time as the crank(assuming this is the 1:11 compression update) From what I can gather this is 203/209/211 time as I cannot find any engine numbers for 202/208/210 even close to what EPC stats have the updated crank. Maybe a very limited market got some with 1:11 compression very late in the piece?.


I'm failry confident you could remove the blank and install the interlock on a tip trans!...What I'm unsure about is if they have removed or changed any other parts that lock the selector arm inside.

what are the differences in the converter and trans on 211 E55?

[Pagz]

A rather large box of M113 5.4 parts turned up yesturday from pelicanparts, amongst them was a crank pully. I'm not sure why, but there are plenty of cheap M113 4.3 pully's about by MB or aftermarket ....but I could only find genuine expensive MB 5.4 ones!...so it cost me a limb, it is completely different casting to the 4.3's one, also much different rubber to the original 5.4, I hope I dont have to replace that in my life time again.

[Pagz]

Remo, Do you ever have trouble with the converter input seal infront of the pump? just whilst I have it off is it worth replacing? I dont really have the right drift to do it so dont really want to if its not nessassary.

[AMG KC]

Pagz, do i hear you correct at three thousand seven hundred and fifty for that CLK55??? If you know of another one come up with a good engine and trans, i will take it straight away. Ive got 7 acres of land up north of Brisbane so ive got plenty o space to put a partly wrecked car

Ive seen a good condition 98-99 E55 as low as $14,000 was in reasonable condition. Around $20,000 is common. Id be happy enough to flog it back off for around 12 grand, im not sure if id swap the rear badges to say 43 or not.

Id be interested to know stall speeds on those various converters.

[RemoLexi]

If you are not planning to open up the type 6, I wouldn't bother messing with the orange input shaft seal / tq. Conv. Seal. I have yet to see one leak! I'm placing a bet you will launch your .6 before that seal decides to leak! (Though not trying to curse you!)

For the shift cable interlock, I think the hole isn't drilled for the pin for the locking arm. I will take a few pics when I get to the shop this weekend. I have a .6 on the bench blow apart.

Stall #'s on the tq. conv. I am not certain of, a wise tech did once tell me the W240 was the way to go. This was years back in my dealership days. I was a green tech didn't bother asking more questions. Aftermarket converters are availible, but I've heard they put on major wear to your .6!

[AMG KC]

Well they could depending on their specs, i had a 9" lockup type 3,200 stall in my 94 Corvette, but i did that during trans rebuild. Stock was 12" lockup and around 1,500 stall, f***en useless on an LT1 with a 112°LSA cam in it.

The smaller diameter gave a far greater torque multiplication factor, somewhere around 2.8 times was their figure, not sure what the stock gave but probably around 1.5ish at a guess.

I would expect he told you that because the W240 is a reasonably large heavy ( and bloody ugly ) car, quite likely having a higher stall speed. Youd want to be sure the diameter is the same or smaller though..