Reply With QuoteForgot a pic of my baby. Was going to add it in the original post but I've exceeded limit of pics.
Hey guys,
I am looking for suggestions on which route to go. I have the 18inch Monoblocks in 18x8 in front and 18x9 in rear.
215/40-18 Front
245/35-18 Rear
I am getting the wheels refinished soon. They had some bends in them and were curbed.
Pics of the wheels.
Front wheels
Back wheels
The goal is to have a drop like this. I am thinking of H&R sport springs with Bilstein shocks,no pads in the front and #1 in the rear. Having no pad on the front won't cause any issues, will it?
Last edited by BolivianFuego; 03-26-2015 at 09:16 PM.
Forgot a pic of my baby. Was going to add it in the original post but I've exceeded limit of pics.
What kind of suggestions do you need?
Looking for suspension recommendation to match the drop on the cars I posted in the first post.Originally Posted by Auxive
I am thinking H&R Sport with Bilstein shocks and no pad on the front and #1 in the rear.
What do you guys think?
I was thinking H&R Cup but the drop looked to be a bit too low.
And how strong on the Monoblocks to bends? I am scared after I get them fixed they'll get bent again easily.
After the snow around here there's a ton of potholes (which I do a great job of avoiding but sometimes it's impossible to completely avoid one).
h&R Sports with biltein sports is the best combination for me imho...
If it were my car (being a 1999 C280 6 cylinder) I would definitey opt for the 1999 C43 H&R Supersport springs. Why? These cars need a little more front spring rate to reduce nose dive under hard braking. The V8 spring on the 6 cyl car will of course sit just a tad higher, but the Supersport spring is lower on a C43 then the Sport spring is on the same C43. Overall it should sit very close in ride height to the C280 Sport spring but giving a little higher needed front spring rate.
Koni's are a better shock due to higher (and adjustable) rebound damper rates. TireRack currently has Koni's on sale. Rebound rate controls body roll into corners.
Edit to add- I have the same principal on my1994 C220 4cyl. I used 6 cyl springs on it. (H&R). The front of the car's have different weights due to engine weight(so heavier spring rates to compensate for heavier engines), but the rears of the cars are all pretty much the same. You can adjust with spring pad height if the rear is too low for liking. I used the H&R kit for a 95 C36 on my 94 C220.
Last edited by Vetruck; 03-29-2015 at 10:26 AM.
Thanks for the advice!
Where is the best place to get springs from? Right now I am only relying on Ebay.
Tirerack.com (not necessarily the best, but a good source)
I also added info in my last post in an edit(just in case you did';t see that)
Dean
The heavier front springs keeps a car from potential rubbing tires against fender also as well as lessening nose dive under braking.
Thanks! To beperfectly honest, I am not looking for a rough ride. This car is just made to cruise/be my daily driver but look good while doing it.
From what I hear, these wheels shouldn't rub at all in the front.
Any suggestion on pads? I saw a guy who had no wheel gap with his H&R sport springs had no pad on the front.
Koni's too I hear are the best performancce bang for the buck but can be a bit bouncy? I may just go with Bilstein since performance isn't a big issue for me. Thoughts?
An OEM replacement Koni is by far a better damper on anything then the equivalent OEM replacement Bilstein. Not to say a Bilstein is not a nice damper- they are. Koni has a better performance range in rebound settings. Rebound is the critical side of any damper. Bilsteins are fixed. You have what you get. Koni you can adjust to fit your need. Compression rates are very compatible on both.When a Koni is on sell the price difference is very compatable. Rare they are on sale, but are right now. I would highly recommend jumping on that..
Pad choice will need to be made after spring and shock install. You will need to see what result is on your individual car with your car's individual weight based on options etc. Also wheel choice and alignment settings can and will change ride height based on leverage . If the camber is not corrected, the spring can ride a little higher then if the tire footing is flat on the ground and weight center line is further from suspension pivot point. You should ALWAYS make spring pad choice after just trying what you have first and seeing results before making alteration measurements. No shortcuts.
As for ride quality, My Brabus was built for and is mainly driven daily by my wife. She has no complaints about any harsh ride and actually likes it much better then the crap nose dive it did every time she had to hit the brakes a little harder than normal. She feels much more secure and stable at freeway speeds and tools around surface streets on her daily outings as well.
The car is still too soft for me, But I am used to hardcore race cars.- but I built it for her safety and comfort. It also seems that before I built mine, everything I was researching and watching video's, pic, etc that was low within 1" of the fenders all have rubbing issues at one situation or another. I will never rub- and you can quote me on that.
There is one annoying issue on my car though- It is the rubber subframe bushings have a "weird" feel to the car. I had a racing buddy in the back seat of the car the other night going to dinner with friends- He said to me I feel something but I can't quite put my finger on what feels "funny" to me? He said the car has a funny little bobble shimmy in the rear, but it doesn't really feel like suspension?
I turned around and said- The rear suspension subframe attaches to the car with rubber bushings.
He Nodded as to comfirm yep, that's it.
I need to change those as well as I think new motor mounts are in order for this car real soon.
My point is, when you upgrade anything, the motion goes into the next weakest link. Whether that be poor tire sidewall quality, suspension bushings, Shocks, or even go as far as metal flexing in the case of my rear subframe when I loaded it into a corner. I would get a severe bobble flex that mostly went away when I built a custom rear subframe brace to box the rear link arms in the cage.
Last edited by Vetruck; 03-30-2015 at 09:20 AM.
So you can reference my ride heights, I will upload the pic on here (I have it in other posts as well as a few videos if you search under my name)
Thank you for the input!!
What springs are you using? And with the Koni's, there's 'suspension travel' adjustability?
Would that also play a part in how low I can go? Again--I am just looking for Spring/Shock kit to lower for looks and comfort. Not going to Auto-X this car or take ot to the road race track.
Can the spring pad be toggled/switched after springs are on, or will the springs need to be taken off in order to switch them out (sorry newb Q')?
Here's what tirerack has going on for my car. Not bad pricing, but about the Koni's are almost still 200 bucks more.
Edit: I am looking at the more expensive (138 front and 135 rear) pricing. Wh
at's the difference between that and the $96 front and $96 rear pricing?
And how about Camber kits? Will lowering drastically affect my tire wear? Is it worth it?
Last edited by BolivianFuego; 03-30-2015 at 10:22 AM.
How does it work with these wheels and lugs? Will the stock lugs from my C280 work? Or do I need to get new ones?
Thank you for the input!!
What springs are you using? And with the Koni's, there's 'suspension travel' adjustability?
Would that also play a part in how low I can go? Again--I am just looking for Spring/Shock kit to lower for looks and comfort. Not going to Auto-X this car or take ot to the road race track.
Can the spring pad be toggled/switched after springs are on, or will the springs need to be taken off in order to switch them out (sorry newb Q')?
Here's what tirerack has going on for my car. Not bad pricing, but about the Koni's are almost still 200 bucks more.
When you lower the car, you will loose factory alignment adjustment. You will need to build rear caster arms, AND if you go lower then about a 1" drop from stock you will need to install KMAC eccentric bushings up front in the A-arms to be able to eliminate the massive negative camber that develops when the car is lowered a lot like you see mine in the picture. Without his your ride will be a handfull with the car wandering all over the road catching road grooves because of the 2.0+ negative front camber. You want the front camber not to exceed about -0,7 static, Perferably only about -0.4 static if it's a cruiser.
I listed my springs in an above post. I used 1995 C36 H&R springs onto a 1994 C220.
I also opted for Koni 15XX series Monotube shocks for the lighter unsprung weight. The draw back is having to remove them from the car to make adjustments. You would probably much prefer-as most people do- to buy the 13XX series Konis so you can make adjustments without removing anything from the car. They are twin tube and a little heavier which is less desirable for optimum ride quailty and racing by a VERY SMALL MARGIN- but I go for ultimate and do not mind removing parts to adjust-Its what I do every weekend in racing.
You will pretty much need to buy the Mercedes spring removal kit. Once you own this, taking springs in and out in literally a 10 min job on each wheel. Without it? it can take you all day. It depends what a day is worth to you. I, like many others here, own the kit and find it well worth the cost rather than paying someone else to install or fighting an install for a full day. The pads will require a partial spring removal (but at that point the spring is compressed you might as well just pull it out the 30 seconds longer that takes.)
All the other parts you will need and have custom installed are going to cost a lot more than the springs and shocks- just so you know. Lowering a car takes a lot of money to do things correct otherwise the car will not drive properly and you will loose comfort and controllablility at speed with it darting back and forth on road imperfections. Save your money until you can do things correctly, Otherwise I promise you that you will regret it if you go too low without the correction alignment parts.(IE KMAC, and rear camber arms installed.
Gotcha.
Is this the tool?
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...d=181698320340
Rear camber kit?
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...d=301561247928
I wasn't able to find the bushings for the front on ebay. Do you have a link? And will those need to be machine pushed in? Or is the install not so bad?
I got the money, don't get me wrong--just trying to make sure I am doing it all right.
Can you also clarify which suspension is which on the Koni's?
Since this is just going to be a cruiser, is it just OK to get the bilsteins? They have two versions. I am assuming the touring version fits my needs better as this car will never get auto-x'd.
With the money I am probably going to put in for camber kit/alignment, I am better off just saving some loot on struts.
When lowering a car, it all depends on what you're looking for.
I dropped it on H&R Super Sports and I never once messed with camber alignment. I prefer to have a little bit more camber when it's lowered 2", plus cut an extra 0.5". I personally like the look.
Yes it does wear your tyres faster and yes it isn't the best idea, but I wouldn't go heads over heals to change the alignment right away. If I were you'd I'd spend more money on the struts and not worry about the camber too much. You can get a camber bolt adjustment kit that will not completely re-align your car, but it will take some of that unwanted wear from your tyres for relatively cheap.
Auxiive, can you honestly say your steering controls are OK with over -2.0 degrees camber? My car was a handful and quite darty/scary at time for the Mrs. I had to quickly invest in the kit to correct that. I do not see others cars being different in specs then my cars OEM adjustment range.
Also guys, we have shocks, not struts.
Last edited by Vetruck; 03-30-2015 at 09:47 PM.
Thanks!
I don't think I will be cutting the springs, but instead going for probably the lowest pads I can put in there.
Were my tirerack screen caps taken down? If so, why?
And the Bilstein shocks--as listed above, should I just go for the touring shocks? I am just looking for a comfy ride and little to no wheel gap all around.
Is the lowest springs offered the H&R Sports? I also will want a camber kit most likely because tires weren't cheap for the Monoblock 18s. Rather get a camber kit than a new set of tires with in 10k miles.
I didn't moderate out anything from your post ???
As for advice on Bilstiens, I'll let others give recommendations. I already gave my opinion. Koni's are expensive for a reason. Very high quality. I would compare those Touring class Bilsteins to a cousin of a Monroe. They are not performance oriented at all. The other "Performance" ones are equivilent to a Koni Red at best. I can almost promise you if you put the proper H&R sport spring for you application and a TOuring shock with a #1 spring pad your tires will rub under hard braking and cornering. I know my car would and it is a little higher then what you are describing height wise.
I just do not want to see you make a mistake and waste money on something that is not going to be firm enough to control wheel movement with the car that low.
Last edited by Vetruck; 03-30-2015 at 09:55 PM.
Weird! It's not showing up on my ipad--but it is on my iphone.
Thanks for the input on the touring vs the sport. To be honest, I am trying to put as little money as I can on this car/setup because this is just a daily that I want to look good. The most hard braking and corner she will receive is on a highway lol.
Really do appreciate your input though. It's been phenomenal. To reference your pic above--what # pad do you have all around?
Anyone care to input on the Bilsteins?
Forgot to add--Can anyone please clarify if My 18inch Monoblocks will work with my stock C280 lug bolts?
Do me a favor. Tie a zip tie around your current front shock shaft and push it down on top of the shock body. Then go drive around normal for 30 mins and measure how far off the shock body that zip tie is pushed. That is you suspension travel.
What you are talking about using is just as soft and will ground out in travel.
those Bilstein turning are nothing more than OEM replacement. You might as well just keep your current shocks. you're not going to be happy with the results when you lower a car that low. when you lower a car you need to limit the suspension travel with a little stiffer suspension in order not to have it rub and try to limit increasing suspension geometry that will cause havoc on your alignment.
As for my spring pads I use number ones. However, like I keep telling you I am using springs on the front of my car that are designed for a car 250 pounds heavier in the engine bay than what I have. I am also running koni shocks set on full rebound and larger H&R sway bars that help each side assist the other to limit independent wheel travel.
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