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Thread: C32 front brakes on a W202?

  1. #26
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    I don't have data on brake rotor material but I can tell you that on properly heated tool steels it does absolutly nothing. If it is a cast wrought, rolled or forged or whatever matrial you have, what you want in a situation like this is low residual stress and toughness with just enough hardness that surface seizures or galling won't happen. After 1 thermal cycle above the annealing temp of any part of the rotor any possible claimed benifit would be erased. At temp way below melting temp most metals start creeping and trying to relieve the stresses present, applied or residual. M-7 tool steel has half its room temp strength at 500 something Degree F! It is considered a high hot strength tool steel. Brake rotors get like 3X this on the surface of the friction zone. The problem happens whenever the metal cools down from these temperatures. It is impossible to make every portion cool at the same rate. This causes zones of tension and compresion. Compression on the surface of things is usually good because that is where there is usually the highest concentration of defedts and stress risers. Cracks can't form under comprression. Compression shot peening vibro peening and coldworking all do this by mechanically modifying the surface. Brake rotors have all sorts of cross sectional variation and heating and cooling rates. This is where residual stress builds and even chemical changes happen in the material.
    By rotors of the best material and hope that there is as much as possible geometric and residule stress symmetry. Oh yeah, and after making you brakes glow all sorts of colors don,t come to a complete stop. This is the best way to get things going out of round no matter what the material. Got the idea why I think cryo treating is a waist.
    moebiusgold
    \'95 C36

  2. #27
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    Originally posted by moebiusgold
    I don't have data on brake rotor material but I can tell you that on properly heated tool steels it does absolutly nothing. If it is a cast wrought, rolled or forged or whatever matrial you have, what you want in a situation like this is low residual stress and toughness with just enough hardness that surface seizures or galling won't happen. After 1 thermal cycle above the annealing temp of any part of the rotor any possible claimed benifit would be erased. At temp way below melting temp most metals start creeping and trying to relieve the stresses present, applied or residual. M-7 tool steel has half its room temp strength at 500 something Degree F! It is considered a high hot strength tool steel. Brake rotors get like 3X this on the surface of the friction zone. The problem happens whenever the metal cools down from these temperatures. It is impossible to make every portion cool at the same rate. This causes zones of tension and compresion. Compression on the surface of things is usually good because that is where there is usually the highest concentration of defedts and stress risers. Cracks can't form under comprression. Compression shot peening vibro peening and coldworking all do this by mechanically modifying the surface. Brake rotors have all sorts of cross sectional variation and heating and cooling rates. This is where residual stress builds and even chemical changes happen in the material.
    By rotors of the best material and hope that there is as much as possible geometric and residule stress symmetry. Oh yeah, and after making you brakes glow all sorts of colors don,t come to a complete stop. This is the best way to get things going out of round no matter what the material. Got the idea why I think cryo treating is a waist.


    intersting ..

    Although I have never own a cryo-treated rotor I have been hearing a good feedback from people who track often. (mercedesshop, mbworld and bmw forums)
    Thats another reason I was thinking of giving these a try

    Although your point does make sense, and I am under the impression that the cryo-treatment is minimizing and stabilized the material mass molecules/particle structure.

    That way when it get abused (change in temperatue, extreme heat, uneven cool down, all the structure will remain as much as possible.)

    But hey I am curious and learning as how effective this process can do to preserve the brake rotor



    Regardz,
    J Irwan by AMG........Motorsport.

  3. #28
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    I have allways learned best with data. If you know of reputable people saying it works for whatever reason the answer is try them, for sure! It didn't come out enough in my post but I was implying that if you don't have the best material to start with there coulld be something in it. If it worked on everything it would be all over our and everyone's cars. Rods springs .... In my industry I have seen clains for performace gains in metal materials from ion implantation to sub micron carbides. Some of it works, some doesn't. Its weird to see the stuff that doen't make rounds from one industry to another over the course of years making all sorts of claims. Claims are claims but if you have data.... I live for data (when I'm not having "fun") and if it's invovled with the only other real passion of my life, I'm happy. Thanks for sharing, I'll just sit back and wait for you to find out. I just hope that's before my rotors are shot. I like to run them to the end cuz i think that they are the lightest, so you have the less moment of inertia effect, just like wheels, tires, flywheels,.. I wish we could get ceramic rotors ...
    I had willwood superlite 4 on the LF and RR(birdcage) with aluminum rotors on my sprint car. They worked well but wore fast. When I was starting and missed setups by embarrasing amounts I blew the brkes off the car in 25 laps of a 3/10 (Skajit Speedway) I had spectators come down afterwards talking about flames with sparks shooting back 6 or more feet! Glad I couldn't see it! I had my hands full without any more input. I took over 1/4 " off the cast iron main rotor. It was only $35 + tax. The complete rear end with a steel lower shaft, not a Ti one is only 2K. Renntech wants 2500$ for a posi. Waa These C's can be kindy spendy at times. Its trying to suck me in.
    moebiusgold
    \'95 C36

  4. #29
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    Can someone explain the difference between a floating piston and fixed piston? Also, how it effects the brake system, and pros and cons of them?

    Found a definition in case you are interseted
    1998 C43
    1994 C280 (Retired)

    "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." - da Vinci

  5. #30
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    Can the C55 brakes be used at all??.. will they fit on the W202 like the C32 brakes do?
    are the C55 brakes any larger than the C32's??
    *2002 E320 4Matic Wagon* Daily
    --Not loweredó18" AlphardsóStock exhaust.
    Lots Comingó3 piece 18" AMG Aero IIóCustom BagsóWide FendersóW210 E55 Engine Swap with 4maticó

    *1999 C230K Turbo* Track Car
    --18" SL55 AMG's--KW V2 Suspension--SLK55 Front and Rear Brake--Wiechers Braces--Custom GT28 Turbo--Custom 3" Exhaust--68mm Throttle body--450cc Injectors--Custom Intake Manifold--Custom liquid to air intercooler--C36 Rear--Brabus Front--

  6. #31
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    Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
    Can the C55 brakes be used at all??.. will they fit on the W202 like the C32 brakes do?
    are the C55 brakes any larger than the C32's??

    The current C55 brake are exactly the same as C32's.


    The SLK55 (R171) and 2005 CLK55 (W209) has the newer brakes
    6 pot front caliper and bigger rotor diameter..



    Regardz,
    J Irwan by AMG........Motorsport.

  7. #32
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    So.. do the R171 or W209 front brakes work on a W202??
    6 pot is better than 4!!
    *2002 E320 4Matic Wagon* Daily
    --Not loweredó18" AlphardsóStock exhaust.
    Lots Comingó3 piece 18" AMG Aero IIóCustom BagsóWide FendersóW210 E55 Engine Swap with 4maticó

    *1999 C230K Turbo* Track Car
    --18" SL55 AMG's--KW V2 Suspension--SLK55 Front and Rear Brake--Wiechers Braces--Custom GT28 Turbo--Custom 3" Exhaust--68mm Throttle body--450cc Injectors--Custom Intake Manifold--Custom liquid to air intercooler--C36 Rear--Brabus Front--

  8. #33
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    Originally posted by J Irwan
    The current C55 brake are exactly the same as C32's.


    The SLK55 (R171) and 2005 CLK55 (W209) has the newer brakes
    6 pot front caliper and bigger rotor diameter..



    Regardz,
    J Irwan

    would you by any chance have the part # for the SLK 55 and Clk55 brake parts. I an thinking of upgrading soon.

    Thanks

    Jason
    Got BRABUS?

  9. #34
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    so jeff that breaks you are getting are thye the best that can be done for w202?
    97 C280 RIP 09-14-07 killed by a reckless rice rocket jetta (I just try and remember the good times)

    ***C43***

    Clear Corners, ss oil filter, avantgrade grill, sport pedals, clk door pins

  10. #35
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    Originally posted by 714guy
    J Irwan

    would you by any chance have the part # for the SLK 55 and Clk55 brake parts. I an thinking of upgrading soon.

    Thanks

    Jason

    Jason,

    Unfortunately I don't have that yet.
    If you happend to have that before I can obtain them, please share it with me


    I'll let you know as soon as I got them..


    Regardz,
    J Irwan by AMG........Motorsport.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Irwan View Post
    I will say it again it will be bolt-on straight up

    Since the mounting position on the C32/W203 as trailing caliper you would have to reverse it on W202/W208/W210 as a leading caliper.
    But it will work.

    I however found out a way to install it correctly on W202/W208/W210 a.k.a not in the reversed way (like most people who had done this convertion).

    check this thread out.


    I am also aware of the one directional vented rotor part.
    However, if you do this brake convertion it shouldn't be worse than C32.
    Although to get the maximum brake is not achieved here with the rotor being one side (directionally vented) obviously Mercedes thought that this should be fine for street use.

    But if you want to Autocross, or track the car you GOTTA pay the premium buy the best brake you could buy i.e MOV-IT, Brembo, StopTech, APRacing, WilWood, etc..


    but for the money it is no brainer it cost 1/5 of brembo and 1/4 of Stoptech and MOV-IT, and 1/3 APRacing .. you get the idea.

    But in short you get what you paid for.

    But for the money it is worth it. (better than stock Non AMG car's brakes for sure)



    Regardz,
    Hi guys
    Can access the thread as I'm a newbie here can you please give more info about fitting the 4 pot calipers to w208 without changing the sides?
    Cheers

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Astamir View Post
    Hi guys
    Can access the thread as I'm a newbie here can you please give more info about fitting the 4 pot calipers to w208 without changing the sides?
    Cheers
    There is really nothing relevant on the link. Just three posts them talking about moderator privileges and nothing to do with brakes.

  13. #38
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    What I can share with you is a company that does have applications for a w202 Mercedes in the way of performance brakes.

    Ceika

    http://ceikaperformance.com/

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetruck View Post
    There is really nothing relevant on the link. Just three posts them talking about moderator privileges and nothing to do with brakes.
    Unfortunately, when we changed the site over, many links were broken.
    1998 C43
    1994 C280 (Retired)

    "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." - da Vinci

  15. #40
    I know this is an old thread but I'm upgrading my 1999 C230 Kompressor to Bigger rotors and Calipers

    What I am using:
    2000-2 CL500/S430 Calipers ($100 ebay pair)
    2002 SLK32AMG Rotors 330x32mm (amazon $36 each)

    problems I encountered is I had to space the calipers 10mm and use 45mm long M10 caliper mounting bolts
    this is due to the rotor offset. I found some GLK rotors that move the rotor back 8mm but have not found some to play with yet.

    found some longer brake lines that would work from a 64 VW Bug 19" long (about 490mm) ($10 each)

    Trying to find some used SLK32 backing plates ($200 pr NEW). Ordered some for a E430 4Matic ($40 pr NEW) but it uses the wrong mounting since its AWD.

    Has anyone done the same conversion??

    My 95 C36 I am going to go to E55 Brakes. Since the rims on that car is 18" already

  16. #41
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    I have.

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