Need intercooler info

[MrSpace]

what CFM should I look for in an intercooler for my car?

any other info that I should ask before buying something?

Etienne

[jstrat85]

i got the hks intercooler on my car.

[Pagz]

size will be the biggest factor in choosing the IC,there is very limited space without effecting the front structure,so my advise would be to fit the largest you can under the bumper,especially since your SC puts out more pressure than stock....

its amazing how many people fit truck size IC's and end up with an ugly front end with huge turbo lag

Regards,
Paul

[SLAMMED_C]

Yeh I was curious about this also.. I was looking at high cfm flowing intercoolers and wondering if it really matters?
do I just want a larger intercooler that will flow more air period?

well my intake is done.. install wed.. next up is the boost side.. heres another 4 months of building!!

[Pagz]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
Yeh I was curious about this also.. I was looking at high cfm flowing intercoolers and wondering if it really matters?
do I just want a larger intercooler that will flow more air period?

well my intake is done.. install wed.. next up is the boost side.. heres another 4 months of building!!

hey man...
i dont think it matters to much either,usually bigger is better to a degree,given more area to cool the charged air and a higher flow rate should net gains...but usually at the cost of just alittle more lag...im pretty sure there is an IC calculator some where on the net!?!

kewl how does the intake sound?....
ps im still writing!

[SLAMMED_C]

Nice.. so Im just gonna go for big intercooelr!!...
not in yet.. install is this wed..
and lol to still writing.. no worries!

[Pagz]

Originally posted by SLAMMED_C
Nice.. so Im just gonna go for big intercooelr!!...
not in yet.. install is this wed..
and lol to still writing.. no worries!

....you have mail

[VIP_MBZ]

Remember that even though you may gain flow, the bigger intercooler core you use, the more volume of air has to compress between the supercharger and the intake manifold. There are benefits to having more flow, as well as benefits to having more pressure, and there is definitely an "appropriate" size for a given compressor and boost level. I haven't owned my W202 long enough to figure out a good recommended size, but do keep in mind that bigger is not always better.

Furthermore, there is the issue of pressure drop across the core. A tube and fin type intercooler (like HKS) will have more pressure drop (you can measure this by hooking up a boost guage before and after the intercooler), but because the air spends a longer period of time in the core, more heat exchange takes place. A bar and plate intercooler (like some Spearco) has more flow and less pressure drop, but because the air spends less time in the core, heat exchange is less efficient. Again there is a compromise to be made between flow and heat exchange.

A good way to grasp this concept is to imagine the extremes. If you had no intercooler at all, you would have maximum flow through a straight pipe, but the intake charge would be very hot, causing there to be less dense oxygen, as well as being more prone to pinging and detonation. An intercooler which has only several small passages on the other hand has minimum flow, but because of the amount of time and overall surface area, the intake temps can become very cool. However by the time the air reaches the engine, it has very poor velocity and overall volume. Either way would result in inefficient power.

The same also goes for the intercooler piping. There is no power to be gained by just oversizing the piping, unless you have exceeded the limitations of flow of the existing piping. Regardless, a larger pipe will contain a volume of air that has less velocity and will take longer to achieve the target pressure.

Consider that the factory intercooler system was adequately sized for stock M111 boost, and replacing any of its components should be proportional to the other modifications to the vehicle. Just like the differing pulley upgrades, it will probably come down to trial and error to find the setup that perfectly suits your needs.

-Ray

[MrSpace]

I will have headers, cat and exhaust, and then I'm redoing all from intake to throttle body (this means from intake to SC, SC to IC, IC to MAF, oversize MAF, MAF to TB and oversize TB)

I will probably find an IC about the same size as the stock one but with much more CFM and less pressure drop. Iknow that there are some very cheap ones and some very high end for the same exact size. It can go from 300$ to 1500$

I'm just trying to find the best one for my application.

Etienne

[Pagz]

Originally posted by VIP_MBZ
Remember that even though you may gain flow, the bigger intercooler core you use, the more volume of air has to compress between the supercharger and the intake manifold. There are benefits to having more flow, as well as benefits to having more pressure, and there is definitely an "appropriate" size for a given compressor and boost level. I haven't owned my W202 long enough to figure out a good recommended size, but do keep in mind that bigger is not always better.

Furthermore, there is the issue of pressure drop across the core. A tube and fin type intercooler (like HKS) will have more pressure drop (you can measure this by hooking up a boost guage before and after the intercooler), but because the air spends a longer period of time in the core, more heat exchange takes place. A bar and plate intercooler (like some Spearco) has more flow and less pressure drop, but because the air spends less time in the core, heat exchange is less efficient. Again there is a compromise to be made between flow and heat exchange.

A good way to grasp this concept is to imagine the extremes. If you had no intercooler at all, you would have maximum flow through a straight pipe, but the intake charge would be very hot, causing there to be less dense oxygen, as well as being more prone to pinging and detonation. An intercooler which has only several small passages on the other hand has minimum flow, but because of the amount of time and overall surface area, the intake temps can become very cool. However by the time the air reaches the engine, it has very poor velocity and overall volume. Either way would result in inefficient power.

The same also goes for the intercooler piping. There is no power to be gained by just oversizing the piping, unless you have exceeded the limitations of flow of the existing piping. Regardless, a larger pipe will contain a volume of air that has less velocity and will take longer to achieve the target pressure.

Consider that the factory intercooler system was adequately sized for stock M111 boost, and replacing any of its components should be proportional to the other modifications to the vehicle. Just like the differing pulley upgrades, it will probably come down to trial and error to find the setup that perfectly suits your needs.

-Ray

your very right man!
finding an IC for a perfect match is like trying to match a turbo....
since our SC's have a very poor efficiency,any increase in pressure results in big increases in inlet temps...
iv got a book on turbo chargeing/air cooling,it gives all the calculations,but its only an outline,its basicly trial and error.

the IC i have is of the micro fin type giving a low restriction hence low pressure drop design,it is not as efficient as the usual fin type but im not running high temps so pressure drop outways efficiency in my application....

I should also test my system by measuring the abient temp versus before and after the IC and also pressure drop,may help give a guide to the rest who are on the IC route!...
though im only producing 5.5 at the TB....

Hey etienne,
would it be possible for you to get a reading of your intake temp after the IC with your car under full load?,it would be interesting to see how much temp increases with the pully mod!

Regards,
Paul

[MrSpace]

is spearco good?

I know it's popular, but does it mean good?

what brand you recommend for least pressure drop and good decrease in temp.

I don'T want a huge IC, altough research showed me a huge intercooler won'T really give lag in the system, there isn't much space anyways in the C230

Etienne

[Pagz]

Originally posted by MrSpace
is spearco good?

I know it's popular, but does it mean good?

what brand you recommend for least pressure drop and good decrease in temp.

I don'T want a huge IC, altough research showed me a huge intercooler won'T really give lag in the system, there isn't much space anyways in the C230

Etienne

its mainly the design that will determine the pressure drop and efficency,....you will usualy sacrifice one for the other,so it will depend on how hot the charged air is,....

currently the OEM IC is the fin type,which has a higher pressure drop,it is also tiny....
so in my opinion,fitting a larger micro fin type will improve pressure,and should also beat the efficiency of the OEM item...

i guess MB used the fin type because of the limited space,low cost,higher efficency??

hey Ray does this sound about right?
thanks

Paul