Using larger blower for C230K

[albanianbenz]

I was looking at different performance mods for my 02 Accord V6 SC with and MP62 Eaton Blower. Then realized the posibility of swapping the current M45 Eaton Blower with the MP62 or similar to allow for more boost. I think max boost the MP62 will allow is ~10, while the M45 will allow ~6 (dont quote me on this). So anywayz does anyone know if this is possible without going into very heavy mods such as building up engine internals. Also is there maybe a different blower that may fit/function better. What is the Max Hp our engine and tranny can hold? By the way I have a 1999 MB C230 Kompressor

Offtopic: was in LA during X-Mas came back and someone stole my system and busted up the wood grain and dash

[MrSpace]

you can spin your stock charger to around 11psi with a larger crank pulley, which is about the max it will take without overspinning.

If you want more power than this, you'll have to go turbo, but this hasn't been done on a C230k as far as I know. It has been done on the C230k coupe and it gets mad power (over 300hp after first stage).

The stock engine can hold a lot of power I read from different sources, but the tranny won't hold it, probably you'll need an AMG C43 tranny or something similar.

Anyways, get a pulley, way simpler.

Etienne

[jnenad16]

Originally posted by MrSpace
you can spin your stock charger to around 11psi with a larger crank pulley, which is about the max it will take without overspinning.

shouldnt a smaller pulley produce higher speeds? just wondering.

nenad

[MrSpace]

Originally posted by jnenad16
shouldnt a smaller pulley produce higher speeds? just wondering.

nenad

smaller supercharger pulley yes (the dynospot racing kit does that) but you are removing the supercharger clutch, which isn't the best thing for durability.

if you put a larger crank pulley, then your supercharger will spin faster (along with the alternator)

With an ASP pulley you should get to 205hp and 240 torque.
With kleemann a little more (maybe 3-5hp) since it's a slightly bigger, but the kit isn't sold anymore here and pretty hard to find even in europe... plus it's like 1200$ instead of ~600$ for the ASP

Etienne

[98c43amg]

Just wanted to add some theorizing to this. I've read it's better to go with a bigger supercharger [i.e. one with higher airflow] spun at a lower RPM then a smaller one at higher rpm because the latter will heat the intake air more [as long as the engine can flow the air the bigger supercharger produces that is]. Comparing...
http://www.magnusonproducts.com/mp45.htm
to
http://www.magnusonproducts.com/mp62.htm

Looking @ the temperatures for 300cfm of airflow as an example:

For the mp45, from 5 - 10 psi of boost, the rpm range required is about 13,000 to 14,000. Intake aircharge temp delta [increase] for that rpm range is between about 120 to 180 degrees [woa].

For the same airflow with again between 5psi to 10psi of boost with the mp62, rpm required is 9500rpm - 10,000rpm, and air charge delta is about 105 - 125 degrees.

Interestingly, power to drive the mp62 at this rpm, while creating the same but cooler airflow, is also less. Seems like a win win to me as opposed to changing the pulleys to spin the mp45 supercharger faster.

Now, you also need to consider something else though. Air charge pressure [boost] is not just a result of spinning a supercharger faster, but moreso the inability of an engine [intake manifold + heads + intake valves + combustion chamber geometry + exhaust valves + heads again + exhaust manifold + exhaust system] to =flow= the air fast enough ... causing the backpressure in the intake system and thus what's known as "boost pressure". So if you put a supercharger on an engine that can't flow it fast enough, and this inability to do so usually increases geometrically the higher the RPM of the engine goes, =that= is what creates excessive "boost" and inturn damaging heat of the intake air.

With that said can the W202's stock [2.3L or thereabouts I believe?] 6-cylinder engine flow the air through it with a MP62 supercharger fast enough so there isn't excessive boost produced well above 10psi near redline ...? That I don't know. But if it can, it seems the MP62 would be a "better" choice to increase output of the engine. I imagine some reworking of the pulleys to reduce the speed they revolve at to keep the rpm-based airflow of the supercharger from getting too high with the engine target rpm between 2K to 6K would be needed. That then may cause other difficulties though as the mp62 is less efficient at lower rpm then the mp45

...anyway, just theorizing based on specs.

[Pagz]

Originally posted by 98c43amg
Just wanted to add some theorizing to this. I've read it's better to go with a bigger supercharger [i.e. one with higher airflow] spun at a lower RPM then a smaller one at higher rpm because the latter will heat the intake air more [as long as the engine can flow the air the bigger supercharger produces that is]. Comparing...
http://www.magnusonproducts.com/mp45.htm
to
http://www.magnusonproducts.com/mp62.htm

Looking @ the temperatures for 300cfm of airflow as an example:

For the mp45, from 5 - 10 psi of boost, the rpm range required is about 13,000 to 14,000. Intake aircharge temp delta [increase] for that rpm range is between about 120 to 180 degrees [woa].

For the same airflow with again between 5psi to 10psi of boost with the mp62, rpm required is 9500rpm - 10,000rpm, and air charge delta is about 105 - 125 degrees.

Interestingly, power to drive the mp62 at this rpm, while creating the same but cooler airflow, is also less. Seems like a win win to me as opposed to changing the pulleys to spin the mp45 supercharger faster.

Now, you also need to consider something else though. Air charge pressure [boost] is not just a result of spinning a supercharger faster, but moreso the inability of an engine [intake manifold + heads + intake valves + combustion chamber geometry + exhaust valves + heads again + exhaust manifold + exhaust system] to =flow= the air fast enough ... causing the backpressure in the intake system and thus what's known as "boost pressure". So if you put a supercharger on an engine that can't flow it fast enough, and this inability to do so usually increases geometrically the higher the RPM of the engine goes, =that= is what creates excessive "boost" and inturn damaging heat of the intake air.

With that said can the W202's stock [2.3L or thereabouts I believe?] 6-cylinder engine flow the air through it with a MP62 supercharger fast enough so there isn't excessive boost produced well above 10psi near redline ...? That I don't know. But if it can, it seems the MP62 would be a "better" choice to increase output of the engine. I imagine some reworking of the pulleys to reduce the speed they revolve at to keep the rpm-based airflow of the supercharger from getting too high with the engine target rpm between 2K to 6K would be needed. That then may cause other difficulties though as the mp62 is less efficient at lower rpm then the mp45

...anyway, just theorizing based on specs.

hey,
Iv been doin alot of research on this stuff lately....trying to work out possible turbo specs for my 23K.....

I also noticed when the 23k SC is above 5k boost raises to 8psi at redline indicating poor engine flow in this area....
I get the feeling MB made this for big numbers down low(like they usual do.....)but thats just my view man...
I cant wait to ditch the SC for turbee.... but thats always going to be debatable for the application.....

I see where your coming from on your current 230K SC....
they become very in-efficient when you increase SC RPM
and this is why i want to trade SC for alittle lag.....
great idea though...let us know if you change....could well be a win win

Regards,
Paul

[albanianbenz]

Turboing the engine requires a lot more $$$$$. I would suspect we would need a custom made turbo manifold (at least $1000), then u would need to find the best matched turbo for this engine for best results, completely custom piping size and shapes, Intercooler not even sure of amt. of room avail. for one, larger fuel injectors, fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, engine management unit to control air/fuel, etc. I may be wrong cuz haven't researched this enough. Although, then you have a wicked ride but it will be costly prolly around $5000. About swapping in a C43 AMG tranny is their a lot of mod required or is it bolt-on. I would think gearing is different plus ECU may need changing, You could also go with a built-up tranny. If u have more info bout turbo i would like to know. Anyone looked into Supercharging for low-end and then having a by-pass to stop SC at higher RPMs decreasing lag. I think some VW have this set-up.

[Pagz]

hey,
Yeh its always debatable.....
it all depends on how much performance you want and where you buck stops....
but looking into it i see there is very little change in ecu/fuel delivery needed to run low pressure(9psi) turbo on the 230K....and gains are much above SC due to Efficiency
though i will find out alot more before i blow 6K on parts.

Regards,
Paul

[MrSpace]

go read about the turboe'd W203 on mbklasse

he had many problems with fuel delivery, but still he now makes over 300hp...

Etienne

[Pagz]

Hey Ettienne...
yeh iv been through all of the threads for this car and are currently talking to the owner....

Regards,
Paul