HP increase...

[C230KSPORT00]

Originally posted by Nelson Lago
a new one that can get more hp

Where do yo think i would be able to find one. And how much you think? Thanks

[speedybenz]

Yes, A new supercharger that is a Keene-Bell, Magnacharger or Kleemann type that would pump more air into the engine and also would continue to pump air up to redline which could also be moved up to 7000 to 7500 rpm.

Man if you could get the car down to 2800 lbs or so you would have both a cornering rocket but also a car that would come off the corners very hard too.

Jeff

[C230KSPORT00]

Do you guys know where i could find one of those superchargers to replace mine? Like a website or soething. Thanks

[speedybenz]

You can go to the Whipple site and look, etc. But none of the companies that produce the superchargers are going to have something you could bolt to your car.

But ince you have a 4-cylinder the cost to build a custom intake manifold or to modify yours would not be too ourageous of an expense. Costly, yes but not Renntech pricey.

Also the company in San Jose did some pretty good work with the stock compontes and ended up with 240Hp(Is this close?).

But if you spend you money on light wheels, light battery, lighter exhaust and a header of course and lighter brakes and such, your car will handle so much better, and go much faster everywhere there are corners. Then save the engine money and spend it on track day schools like NASA or others for some real fun. Plus you will become a much better driver. No let me say a much, much, much, much better driver

Jeff

[omeyhomey]

Originally posted by c55m8o
In addition to weight reduction and all other points mentioned, go for the lightest rims, and more importantly, tires, you can find! This will reduce the moment of inertia of the tire + rim combo the most and make it easier for your engine to get them turning on acceleration.

I can suggest OZ Supperleggera rims and Michelin tires. Out of the only three tires I'd consider in the 'extreme performance' category, the Michelin is the lightest, then Dunlop, then Bridgestone.

YES!! finally somebody that realizes that . Also very key.

[c55m8o]

Speedybenz reminds us of the special place the non-V8 W202 has in his heart, as that's the one he started with. Jeff, don't tell C230KSPORT00 you have one of the rare C43/55 swaps tho, you'll get him thinking this whole thing!

Jeff reminds us of the other thing not mentioned previously, battery. From one of Jeffs threads years back, I purchased this a month ago:
http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc925series.htm

The differnce in weight, and size, is laughable. Something like 55lbs for the stock and 24.5 for this one... (I did loose some traction! lol ) Don't expect to use the stock battery clamps however. I used a bunch of piecs of expandable styrafoam wedging it in place with strategically placed plastic on top to protect the (+) terminal.

As the 5.4L E55 engine has pleanty of torque, I don't need a Roots or Lysholm (sic) type SC if I want more. I had been considering a custom supercharger setup with one of these:
http://www.powerdyne.com/superchargers.htm

Having a 4 cylinder there's a much lower capacity of air flowing then the V8. So you have to size the CFM capacity properly. i.e., you have a lot of reading and learning to do before you try anything like this. The key to a supercharged engine is also -not- boost... it is -air-flow- !!! "Boost" is "bad" (for an engine that's not built for it, with a low compression ratio and stonger internals), as I'm equating "boost" with increased pressure and that denotes a increase in air temperature. You want the increase in air-flow from a bigger supercharger (or turbo) to 'fly' into and out of the cylinders as quickly and easily as possible. THAT is when your supercharging system is working effectively and efficiently. You're then increasing the airflow with a bigger SC then you have now but not increasing the air temperature (an undue amount), because your intake manifold isn't suffering from an undue & excessive increase in air back-pressure.

So what does all this mean...? You -have- to do hi-flow intake system, headers, cat and exhaust (ALL hi-flow ) first if you decide to step up the supercharger.

Or, you can stick with the roots type for lower RPM torque but not as much gains at hi-rpm torque, i.e. power, as you can attain with the above supercharger.
http://www.magnusonproducts.com/models.htm

You probably have the SC with the flow of the MP45 now. (other here know I'm sure) You can consider stepping up to the MP62 -IF- you add hi-flow intake, headers, cat and exhaust, only.

[C230KSPORT00]

Originally posted by c55m8o
Speedybenz reminds us of the special place the non-V8 W202 has in his heart, as that's the one he started with. Jeff, don't tell C230KSPORT00 you have one of the rare C43/55 swaps tho, you'll get him thinking this whole thing!

Jeff reminds us of the other thing not mentioned previously, battery. From one of Jeffs threads years back, I purchased this a month ago:
http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc925series.htm

The differnce in weight, and size, is laughable. Something like 55lbs for the stock and 24.5 for this one... (I did loose some traction! lol ) Don't expect to use the stock battery clamps however. I used a bunch of piecs of expandable styrafoam wedging it in place with strategically placed plastic on top to protect the (+) terminal.

As the 5.4L E55 engine has pleanty of torque, I don't need a Roots or Lysholm (sic) type SC if I want more. I had been considering a custom supercharger setup with one of these:
http://www.powerdyne.com/superchargers.htm

Having a 4 cylinder there's a much lower capacity of air flowing then the V8. So you have to size the CFM capacity properly. i.e., you have a lot of reading and learning to do before you try anything like this. The key to a supercharged engine is also -not- boost... it is -air-flow- !!! "Boost" is "bad" (for an engine that's not built for it, with a low compression ratio and stonger internals), as I'm equating "boost" with increased pressure and that denotes a increase in air temperature. You want the increase in air-flow from a bigger supercharger (or turbo) to 'fly' into and out of the cylinders as quickly and easily as possible. THAT is when your supercharging system is working effectively and efficiently. You're then increasing the airflow with a bigger SC then you have now but not increasing the air temperature (an undue amount), because your intake manifold isn't suffering from an undue & excessive increase in air back-pressure.

So what does all this mean...? You -have- to do hi-flow intake system, headers, cat and exhaust (ALL hi-flow ) first if you decide to step up the supercharger.

Or, you can stick with the roots type for lower RPM torque but not as much gains at hi-rpm torque, i.e. power, as you can attain with the above supercharger.
http://www.magnusonproducts.com/models.htm

You probably have the SC with the flow of the MP45 now. (other here know I'm sure) You can consider stepping up to the MP62 -IF- you add hi-flow intake, headers, cat and exhaust, only.

C55, thanyou for writing all that out for me but to be honest i do't know what most of it ment...its clear to me that you know alot mre about cars then i do.. do yo think you can put that into simpliar terms please. Thankyou

[c55m8o]

honestly, I'm writing in the simplest terms I know (with assumptions of certain understand of how an engine operates internally). The world is your oyster with the Internet. You can't become educated w/o reading. I recommend you just read a lot on the topic of supercharger theory, if you plan to do anything in that regard. Let me see if I can find some other writings I've done or things I've read... (I'm using 'search' to search for posts with my handle, or previous handle '98c43amg', and the term 'boost' or 'flow' and 'airflow' ... hint hint )

OK, I'm back...

Thread on this very subject:
http://www.club202.com/forums/showth...highlight=flow
With my elaboration on this topic under my previous handle, 98c43amg.

Ah, and another article I wrote on the subject; please read this:
http://www.club202.com/forums/showth...hlight=airflow

If after reading the second link, you have any questions about any particular concept or words even, let me know. Answering that will be much more possible then elaborating on everything blindly.

Here's a link regarding what a joke those 'electronic' superchargers are discussing the theory of airflow, CFM, and cubic inch displacement.
http://www.club202.com/forums/showth...hlight=airflow

[C230KSPORT00]

After reading both links i still have no idea whats going on...i have alot to learn. In the first aticle someone talks about some type of pulley that with give the c230k abot 205hp. Do you know where i wold be able to find one? Also since you seem to know alot abot whats happing with my car do you think you could help me out with some performance mods?? Apreciate it. Thankyou

[Benzalot]

:beard:

[c55m8o]

They're talking about using a smaller pully on the stock SC to spin it faster. You can do that, for nominal, but non-linear gains realted to how much you spin it by (i.e. spin it 10% faster you may get 3-5% increase in power; not definitive about the #'s, but it's something like that). That is because, look @ the specs of the MP45 in the Magnuson link I provided. Spinning it faster means you 'max-out' the supercharger, running it in the 'inefficient zone', resulting in less air-flow relative to the spin rate, but more heated air. That's always 'bad' if your not intercooling.

Didn't you learn about pullies in school? i.e. the way one man can lift things many times his weight through pully ratios? If you spin a drive pulley with a small diameter, and destination pulley with a large diameter, you increase the torque on the rope around the second (what I call 'destination') pulley, thus force on the rope lifting an item, by the ratio of the difference in diameters between the pullies. (Sorry, I have no idea how old you are, and how you did in school, or if you paid attention in Physics class, or thought it was a joke and didn't. But if you thought it was a joke, sorry, here's why it's not!!! )

Anyway, the concept is similar but in reverse on the supercharger. When you put a -smaller- pulley on the supercharger, it will spin faster; but it's also harder to spin. You can gain power by increasing the rate of rotation, but you sap power from the engine because it's harder to spin faster. Additionally, spining the SC you have now faster, pushes it more into the inefficient zone, furhter sapping the gains you can attain. All That is why if you say, spin it 10% faster, you may only see 3%-5% more gains in power. (again, numbers are supposition, but it's something like that)

Sorry, I don't make modz and don't have your engine so don't know the parts you need. I'm just helping out giving you a leg up on the theory, with condencing of things that took me many months to learn over over the course of years as I came upon them, here in one place for you.

Also, what Benzalot has to add is also very correct; just another issue & variable in the whole equation among many many more.

ok, gotta go.
-steve

[Switchblind360]

Originally posted by C230KSPORT00
After reading both links i still have no idea whats going on...i have alot to learn. In the first aticle someone talks about some type of pulley that with give the c230k abot 205hp. Do you know where i wold be able to find one? Also since you seem to know alot abot whats happing with my car do you think you could help me out with some performance mods?? Apreciate it. Thankyou

http://www.jdsperformance.com/index....tem&inmake=230

[AirPost]

C230KSPORT00, I was in the same boat as you are now in regards to turbos and superchargers. After reading the 2 links below (one has illustrations), it made things clearer for me and hopefully for you too. It was like staying overnight at a Holiday Inn - I'm now a self-proclaimed expert

How To Stuff Works - Superchargers with illustrations

Wikipedia's Supercharger Info

[C230KSPORT00]

Originally posted by Switchblind360
http://www.jdsperformance.com/index....tem&inmake=230

$617.?!?!?! Thats outragous!!!

[c55m8o]

lol ... what basis do you have to say? I thought you didn't know about this stuff. <grin>

otherwise, welcome to the world of Mod'n a Benz!

[C230KSPORT00]

Originally posted by c55m8o
lol ... what basis do you have to say? otherwise, welcome to the world of Mod'n a Benz!

lol your right..your totally right.

[C230KSPORT00]

Originally posted by AirPost
C230KSPORT00, I was in the same boat as you are now in regards to turbos and superchargers. After reading the 2 links below (one has illustrations), it made things clearer for me and hopefully for you too. It was like staying overnight at a Holiday Inn - I'm now a self-proclaimed expert

How To Stuff Works - Superchargers with illustrations

Wikipedia's Supercharger Info

Thanks air post i will read and hopefull i will understand alot more. Thanks

[c280nz]

sorry i didnt read all the previos posts because there getting a bit long, but just try and get a pully upgrade and ecu chip, that will prolly give you good bang for your buck, then maby an exhaust, and cold air intake to your supercharger
i know theres a few ppl round here with pulley and ecu done with good results, just search for it

[C230KSPORT00]

Originally posted by c280nz
sorry i didnt read all the previos posts because there getting a bit long, but just try and get a pully upgrade and ecu chip, that will prolly give you good bang for your buck, then maby an exhaust, and cold air intake to your supercharger
i know theres a few ppl round here with pulley and ecu done with good results, just search for it

cool thanks. i will look into that.

[digital2620]

Pulleys upgrades aren't that cheap either. $2K for a Kleeman pulley. ECU programming would be my next upgrade.

The car is fun to drive, with the suspension, wheels and tire upgrade.

Sky is the limit when modding. This is not a cheap hobby.

[omeyhomey]

Originally posted by digital2620
Pulleys upgrades aren't that cheap either. $2K for a Kleeman pulley. ECU programming would be my next upgrade.

The car is fun to drive, with the suspension, wheels and tire upgrade.

Sky is the limit when modding. This is not a cheap hobby.

depends on which pulley & which model you are talking about. Yes I agree kleenman is ripoff but thats not suprising

[digital2620]

Omey

do you have a pulley for the c230K?

Thanks

[Cru328prod]

LMFAO THERE IS TONS OF STUFF TO DO TO A 23K, AND YOU WANNA KNOW SOMTHING.........YOU'LL SPEND TONS AND I MEAN TONS OF MONEY MODDING IT, AND YOU STILL WON'T BE A TURBO CRX CIVIC. I do agree with everyone on here about weight look at an NSX super light with a 260hp motor. There just shit faced quick.

for the C230k

Custom Cold Air intake $300 = Find logic on here he'll tell you
Custom Pipe After the intercooler $150 = Find logic on that 2 it beats buying the kleeman kit
installation you can do you're self
Pulley Upgrade $589.99 = you can get that at K1 Motor's or omey.
installation is going to be around $200 if you don't know how to do it. Installation you can get done at De Bold Performance
28360 Old 41 Rd, Bonita Springs, FL - (239) 947-6155 they work on all proformance euro cars.
Port and Polish your heads and supercharger $50 bucks an hr = This guy i know in labelle fl that just builds 1,000 hp + cars all day long.
Headers $400 bucks on Ebay = de bold can do that 2
Nitrous Oxide 75 to 80 WET SHOT ONLY!! $600 = Installation is really easy if not come see me.
Custom Exhaust 800 bucks = from some people i know
ECU Tuning $299.99 = k1 motor or omey
Carbon Fiber Hood and trunk = Find Lenzsolo on here
Replace the battery to somthing lighter about $120
Custom JE Pistons and rods $700 for a set of 4, installation your looking about $700 bucks
New fuel system, god knows how much thats gonna cost

With all that in mind your up to about 8,000 dollars without tax and installation on some parts. Your looking around at 500hp to engine. You put 8g into a Chevy motor your looking at 6 sec car lol.



Now if your want to go Turbo, i know people that makes custom turbo manifolds, header, etc. locally in florida
Lol you'll probably spend about 6,000 in research and parts alone

i can't wait for Paul to finish his!!!!!!
i really want to know how much it costed to do all of it, and also his parts list.

[Cru328prod]

I really don't know if our transmissions can hold up to that amount of power.......you'll probably rip the flex disc into pieces just going off the line. I know my transmission gave after 9 psi's of boost plus Nitrous with 106 octane. (raced a mustang) need all i could give her

[Logic]

what CRU says is true ..with all the money and time invested into your car it wont beat a beefed up civic buttttttttttttttttttttt if i had a choice i would pick the mercedes hands down. not only are you driving a car that will out last a honda but mercedes has class . so what a honda beats you ( well in my case) i drive mine with the intensions of getting looks not getting tickets for racing or speeding althought the things i done so far has made it pretty peppy ....as a matter of fact the new eclipse isn't that fast as i thought unless it was a four banger cause it was eating my exhaust