Custom clutch + FW

[Pagz]

lol

haha yeh i remember that at 8.30!...hated it^^,only ment one thing =D

Yeh bout the traction,really need lsd at some stage,its a pain atm if i need to get up an uneven driveway it easily picks up one wheel.

lol shortie street.^^

hmmm can you give me a run through on your ignition and fuel system?...are your running the injectors of the stock ecu still but altering mas input signal?

[c280nz]

Originally posted by 23K
lol

hmmm can you give me a run through on your ignition and fuel system?...are your running the injectors of the stock ecu still but altering mas input signal?

yea thats correct
i havent got the cash down the back of the couch 2 spend on fast and furious style "stand alone engine management systems"
haha
but really i shud go stand alone, but i dont really have the electrical skills/time(to learn) to wire it in myself, and i like doing asmuch myself as i can,
i just quietly tinkering when i get the chance now-erdays.
just couldnt get enough fuel with the current injectors so need to go larger, that is using the factory fuel maps,
im lookn round on ebay at the mo for the larger ones, shud cost about 200 usd for 8, 440cc/42pound which isnt to bad, i only need 6 but the v8 guys seem to drop injectors like there hot, and it is often cheaper to buy 8 than 6

[Pagz]

Hmmm i feel ya(tryin my lingo on =P) im no pro on engine programing,but you probably need to start altering ignition timing at some stage too!,altering the maf signal would become more coarse the further you push the pressure up or enlargen injectors?...0.o

does the Apexi have a pressure sensor?...

either way i guess it would depend how large the mas sensor window was ...eg 1 - 5v window over 5 pounds may be ok,but 1-5v over 10 pounds becomes much more coarse.

Can you tell me how the apexi works?...does it take the signal say 1- 5v and alter it based on its own pressure pickup?

The wirings not to hard,i could always help out with that!,its the dyno tuning which is a pita,especially if your not close to one!
theres also the other issues like you'll have to keep the stock ecu and run the stand along on the engine,i havent sorted my ASR,and ABS lights yet lol.
prolly best to try run stock ecu and maybe go piggy back?...kinda like that other guy with that turbo M111 with greddy managment?...totally not sure how they hooked that in though ^^

man long day excuse the messy post=P
got the vito front cover....booooya =D...will get a pick up at some stage.

[Pagz]

Spot the difference =)

stoked as!






now for the fw !!

[c280nz]

there seems to be a few additional oil lines on that filter housing for ya!
well at least somethin has gone right, ditto on the stoked as

yes you are correct on needing ignition timing, it is important for tuning but you can get away without it, all you have to do is stop pre-ignition/detonation, either by running less ignition timing, cooler plugs, less boost, cooler charge, higher octane fuel,
they all help, im using the cooler charge and cooler plugs and the correct a/r ratio to try and prevent detonation at this stage, and so far all is going ok,

i am usng a greedy emanage piggyback, it has ignition control and it has an optional boost port, and you can also wire the standard injectors into it also, but i am just using the maf voltage modifacation at present,
i really really shud get the rest wired in, i have a friend that is a auto electrician, i shud really get him on the job!
current tuning is based on revs and throttle position and adjusts maf relative to these

my problem is if i do all that then i can run more boost and have to get a heavier clutch,
put it this way, below 8pounds maf modifaction works fine, above this i need a new clutch first, then more wiring for tuning above this, so my next step is a little more drawn out and im waiting for some time/inspiration.
thats were im at.

im not sure if as you say with bigger injectors the tuning may get more coarse, if it does i will have to do the -injector wire in- i was talking about

[Pagz]

Ahhh for some reason i thought you went with the apexi add-on!(hence the coarse tuning)...sweet so that piggyback should do everything you'll ever need once its all wired in!...will be better than stand alone with your setup as you will still run the bulletproof oe base maps!


Im still alittle confused about how the piggyback works the OE ecu just with TPS and MAS intup/output.

I mean like,if you have an oe map...the ecu wants to see a valid mas and tps input within its operating settings(min and max map values)...so i guess you can only alter the signal within its operating window??...if so wouldnt the mas operate outside its operating window with added boost being a stock C280 mas...or does it happily read above 14.7 atmo? 0o help this hurts^^

[Pagz]

ah just read this....mmm google =D

http://blogs.superstreetonline.com/6...ecu/index.html

[c280nz]

Originally posted by 23K
Ahhh for some reason i thought you went with the apexi add-on!(hence the coarse tuning)...sweet so that piggyback should do everything you'll ever need once its all wired in!...will be better than stand alone with your setup as you will still run the bulletproof oe base maps!


Im still alittle confused about how the piggyback works the OE ecu just with TPS and MAS intup/output.

I mean like,if you have an oe map...the ecu wants to see a valid mas and tps input within its operating settings(min and max map values)...so i guess you can only alter the signal within its operating window??...if so wouldnt the mas operate outside its operating window with added boost being a stock C280 mas...or does it happily read above 14.7 atmo? 0o help this hurts^^

u even confused me here with your explaination haha,

yes this is correct it alters the signal from th mas between 0-5v, i have been running my maf in a larger housing, hence incresing the air flow for the same 0-5v reading,
and yes u get the best tuning by fine adjusting the voltage between this, and once you hit the 5v reading it simply dumps in as much fuel as the map says it can at that rpm range,
so for example if i run a smaller maf and it got to 5v at only 2000rpm it would still curve the fuel up as the revs go up, the standard computer uses rpm tps airflow and air temp as the main determinating factors for fuel input, and if u peg one of them out it uses the others to influence the curve, just the same as if u put ur foot flat it then goes of the other sensors,


what i like about the standard ecu is when crusing it uses the standard o2 sensor in closed loop for maximum fuel economy,
my car uses no more fuel now(if not less) than it used to before turboing

u article says to use a stand alone, as i sortof already know,
but i really cant validate spending that much more $$$ on my car at present, as a standalone wiring and tune will prolly be an extra 2-3k......
maby one-day

[Pagz]

haha

Ah peg was the term i was looking for,and all makes sense now!
Yeh its definitly a good idea running closed loop!,mine is very thursty atm,however the motec is capable of closed loop,and i have a new O2 sensor i plan to run it on when we get it back for tuning!...hopfully its not to involved in setting it up!.

Yeh cost of ecu is a pain i look at it like if i hadnt have spent it on the motec i would have had to give half to her earlier this year anyway LOL...but yeh if you dont plan to run too much more boost theres really no reason you would need a stand alone,just get your ignition tied in,change the clutch and tune,should be sweet....oh and take me for a drive =P....must be making good hp to slip the clutch!!

do you have much engine movement under power?...im thinking of using the V8 mounts,there quite alot harder and look identical!.

[Pagz]

ops

[Pagz]

Man shouldnt have given me the number...expect txt questions at any random time ^^
thanks but all good on the timing ring gear....we cut the old one off and have machined it to suit!...it will work ok

Yeh every second day i call in to see where its at...if they would have just stayed on the job and done it it would have been all good...but instead every time it got hard it was shoved to one side and left for a week....then we forget where we were at at what was the original concept...anyways so late last week i redrew it for about the 6th or 7th time and got them to draw it up on some flashy software...the weight comes out at 9.7kg,and thats without the machining around the upstands to hold the pressure plate,or the machining around the lower skirt where the timing bolts on...so it should be close to 8kg when its done...just shy of the 20% lighter 7.6kg target(without ringgear,timing and minus extra spec wieght)

not much detail in the pics,its was mostly done to show overall weight and to get an indication of final design.
there drawing up the mill program tonight damn i hope they werent kidding....i need to have this thing back together at the end of this month for a shot at having it going for use at mates wedding early next year!!l =S








Laters,
Paul

[c280nz]

a flexy disc is the disc autos use in front of the torque converter that only has the timing segments and ring gear on it, its pritty light,
i was meaning use one in front of the flywheel then you can cut alot of the weight off the back where u have to extend out for the ring gear.
because these flywheels are wide its one way of just having two flat plates, then the flywheel just has to be alot thinner,
i am taking my engine and gearbox out at the moment and are contenplating changing my flywheel when its out,
im sticking a new motor and clutch in,
i hope you followed that, i just read what i wrote and i cant even understand it haha

[Pagz]

Ah yeh now you mention it i did sketch a design like that...but wasnt sure it was going to be much lighter...however i guess if you put the ringgear and timing on one it prolly would have been!

LOL....i did have to read that last part a heap^^
huh...new engine 0.o
Whats the deal with a new FW?...making it to suit another pressure plate?...or making it heavier?^^

[c280nz]

im meaning i may cut myne down even lighter and run the flexy disc,
- im not planning on towing a boat or caravan so i should be alright :-P
im also changing to a sprung clutch center and geting a higher rated pressure plate to handle the jandal
i bought an auto 280 engine for $500 and it come with the flexy,
and me and my engineer friend (were i do all my work) are going to look at it when it comes out to see if we can carve more off the flywheel and use the disc for timing and ring gear to save overall weight,
new engine in because i think i either fried my rings or cracked a ringland running too lean, i have bigger injectors to go in with the new engine

my current engine is still going, just has lots of blowby, and it has to be running perfect when it comes time to race my friends 202 which hes about 3quarters of the way thru puting in a 13b turbo,
(dont worry i give him shit about being a white trash rota hoe every time i think of a good way to use it in a sentance)


me and a few mates are talking bout hiring out manfeild for a day when all our cars are finally going ǝɯosǝʍɐ

[RemoLexi]

Hey Paul!

looks to me your still going with your 202 project - looking great!!!

hey im planning to swap a 5-speed into my 280 im building the motor on right now (check members gal.) and so im going to be needing a clutch kit and a flywheel.

any reccomendations ? should I stick with OEM or would it be possible to get what your getting ?

ive got a 104 (i think the flywheels would bolt up from 111)

[Pagz]

Originally posted by c280nz
im meaning i may cut myne down even lighter and run the flexy disc,
- im not planning on towing a boat or caravan so i should be alright :-P
im also changing to a sprung clutch center and geting a higher rated pressure plate to handle the jandal
i bought an auto 280 engine for $500 and it come with the flexy,
and me and my engineer friend (were i do all my work) are going to look at it when it comes out to see if we can carve more off the flywheel and use the disc for timing and ring gear to save overall weight,
new engine in because i think i either fried my rings or cracked a ringland running too lean, i have bigger injectors to go in with the new engine

my current engine is still going, just has lots of blowby, and it has to be running perfect when it comes time to race my friends 202 which hes about 3quarters of the way thru puting in a 13b turbo,
(dont worry i give him shit about being a white trash rota hoe every time i think of a good way to use it in a sentance)


me and a few mates are talking bout hiring out manfeild for a day when all our cars are finally going ǝɯosǝʍɐ

lol lighter,there must be next to nothing left on it already?=P
ah crap,so are you getting oil in all the cylinders??,or only a few?

(which hes about 3quarters of the way thru puting in a 13b turbo

Nooooooooooooooooooooooo

(dont worry i give him shit about being a white trash rota hoe every time i think of a good way to use it in a sentance)

LOL



Manfield would be cool as,could be scary along side a rotor 202 hehe.
What does it cost?...i think the eurosport guys might have hired that last year,was like $1600 for the day if i recall

[Pagz]

Originally posted by RemoLexi
Hey Paul!

looks to me your still going with your 202 project - looking great!!!

hey im planning to swap a 5-speed into my 280 im building the motor on right now (check members gal.) and so im going to be needing a clutch kit and a flywheel.

any reccomendations ? should I stick with OEM or would it be possible to get what your getting ?

ive got a 104 (i think the flywheels would bolt up from 111)

Hey bro,
thanks!,couldnt get enough of the 202 huh =P
Kinda depends on what your plans are...If you run n/a then i would just go with a stock clutch setup,maybe go a low stage spec kit.
Unless you want a lighter flywheel,stick with the OE,but if you plan to run much higher hp then a single mass could be a better idea...however the M111 uses a different FW to the 104,Logan(c280nz) would be the man to speak to.

get heaps of pics on the trans change!...its often spoken of and never done here would be good to finally see how much is involved! =)


Paul

[RemoLexi]

good to know the 104 FW is diff from 111.

yep, ive already got enough pics up in members gal. motor ripped apart.

i want to boost the motor like 1/2 bar

[Pagz]

Fark thought it was never going to be completed^^

all balanced ready to go...only concern is the shitty spec clutch disk which was way out of balance and has a 110 thou wobble...:s
that may lead to poor disengagement 0o ...i dunno,im over it.


The guys did an awsome job on the flywheel...all surfaces are flat and only required minimal balancing.


PICS!















Have taken a week off next week to assemble the engine and get it all going...wish me luck hehe:s


Paul

[c280nz]

wow,
everything u do is so bloody impressive/expensive,
wot a car ballr
so u got to get custom flywheel bolts 2?

thatl be sick, il get back to you on the type of steel i used, but i can guarantee it wont be anything like u used, prolly just mild steel, it hasnt warn bugger all tho, how much that setup weigh?

[c280nz]

had to make a new post instead of editing, have to get to 2229 posts,
used 1040 apparantly,
done 10k and pritty much looks like the day it went in, clutch is standard material and was about 1/3 worn,

ul be saaaaweeet as tim tams in ur jim jams,

...haha dont worry even i think im a cock

irralavant side note
i think ive found a second hand low ks manual box in aucks for $500, my one is starting to get a bit noisy so out with the old in with the new,

one day il make my own topic and stop being massivly off topic in ur ones, telling my life story.

[Pagz]

LOL


Na no custom bolts!....but if i had time
havent had a bill for the flywheel yet...mmm=D

Flywheel: 10.01kg
Pressure plate: 5.01kg
Clutch disk: 1.63kg.

If i recall stock was about 21.3kg,so where about 22% lighter overall.


lol as rippin me hard today,only 2229?

Sweet as 1040 is just slightly softer than 1045,so it should be all good,especially running a composite clutch disk!,after some lengthy talks with comp clutches iv removed that metal friction material,its now kevlar which should be much more drivable and wont eat the 1045!,they also uprated the pressure plate from 1510lbs to 3650lbs,didnt even know you could do that?...could even be done to the stock item i would think!
apparently the rivits holding the spring mech on the disk were loose so they have been repressed,lol @ spec


haha,its ok bro nobody surfs the peformance section these days anyways might as well fill it with something^^



PICS...its like early xmas at my place^^



Oil fittings ready to go!,just so happens they had a program for -10an fittings on the lathe





laters

[c280nz]

dont pay the bill for the flywheel, just claim uve got no money from the global recession,
every1 else seems to haha

i only asked about the bolts because the thickness of your new flywheel where it bolts to the crank seems very thin, my standard one was very thick and had long flywheel bolts so i made my new one with a thick center to use the same bolts.

yea the performance section shud be renamed, pauls section
i wish theyd open the forum up to new members this is dieing slowly.

did they double spring your pressure plate? i want to uprate my pressure plate just like you did and i was under the understanding all they do is double spring them, who did it and how much was it?
i was gona just run standard material but try and get them to spring my stock clutch disc center.

im also looking into these phantom grip lsds, a guy over on mercedesshop has put one in his w210 e class turbo (same motor and diff as myne)
if it works out il let you know.
beached as bro

that things gona hold up nice tho!
spec seem pritty usless!

[SLAMMED_C]

damn son!.. that flywheel looks good. guys did great work machining.
whats the point of this new front cover again?.. oil feeds for an external cooler was it? those an fittings turned out great too.. gotta love a lathe!

[omeyhomey]

Spec makes amazing products, you can't go wrong with them.