The Ultimate Canyon Carver - Handling Nirvana

[98c43amg]

Just thought I'd share my experience from this weekend with you W202 nuts. I experienced the hands-down best handling W202 there is out there, arguably up there with the best handling 4dr sedans in the world. Now I know what a "canyon carver" truly is.

I just came back from a visit to NoCal to visit the legendary speedybenz, and got treated to a ride [of my life] on his favorite road --barren with no traffic to slow him down -- to help me determine if I wanted to make the plunge for a complete speedybenz custom suspension for my C43. As I say in my title -- and not to diminish anything from his other performance optimizations he's made to the intake & exhaust, but only speaking currently about his suspension -- I've experienced car handling nirvana this weekend. Well worth the miles I used on the round-trip flight.

I thought it would be good, but never imagined it would be that dramatically superior to my own C43. To imagine my C43 [and your W202] has that much untapped potential within it, brought out with his exceptional custom suspension components [and sick ass 255mm width tires up front and 275mm tires in the rear]. Man, we need EuropeanCar to do an exclusive on his car!

It was so interesting -- and even more a delight -- to be a passenger to a racing professional doing what I do when I drive my car to the limits, but instead "doing it right in every way" [!]. Furthermore -- being driven in a car I so intimately know the chassis of and know the limits of -- it was dramatic to experience those limits I've come to expect be exceeded with such fluidity, balance and control [no doubt his skill and smoothness on the wheel greatly factoring into that ]. Where I'd expect my car to start pushing into that ditch on a left turn, or over the yellow line on a right turn, Jeff's C43 only dug in deeper and followed the intended path with ZERO body roll. How much Jeff coaxed it based on skill vs. how much was inherently available from the car I can't say yet, until I get the suspension on my car ... but I'll let you know cus I'm going to buy the complete setup!
:banana:

I didn't have much of an idea what the road would be like he was telling me about that he was going to take me out on. As I saw it unfold, the stupid grin on my face must have only grew stupider and stupider. Imagine my joy when Jeff didn't only take me for a few turns over a mile as a tease of what the car can do, but stormed at 10/10ths for I think it was 9 miles. Not one car in the way on the way out ; a few cars in the way back; some that remarkably pulled over and let us go; others optimally placed to passing zones so only moments were spent at "civil" speeds. Oh, if I only had roads like that near me.

When I got to take it out on regular suburban roads and a couple of hiway on/off ramps, served to reinforce what I was feeling from the passenger seat. The car had remarkable balance and control with such fluidity in the turns and zero push.

My only regret is I didn't keep one eye focused on Jeff's footwork while he was driving! But between the long distance scenery of the canyons, and the short distance scenery of the canyon road's apexes accelerated upon at joyfully un-civilized speeds, it really didn't enter my mind until about a day later!

Ironically, I also didn't notice if Jeff had the ESP turned off or not. Jeff, did you press the button and turn it off for the drive? Just curious. Thanks so much for the experience. I wish I had a video camera so I could share it with everyone here. Can't wait to get it on my car.

[Cschilderink]

What suspension are you installing?

[98c43amg]

speedybenz custom suspension components ... As I see you're pretty new to the board, do a search on his handle and read some posts he's been involved in. He's a moderator of this suspension tuning section.

He's the best one to itemize, but from one of his posts enumerating the components:

You will get Custom 8100 series Penske shocks that will bolt right up and will be adjustable for compression and rebound damping independantly. The damping is the product of over one year of testing.

He worked with Penske since he had contacts from his racing days to install special valving in the shocks appropriate for the dynamics of our W202's chassis, you wouldn't otherwise be able to buy from a Penske catalog w/o knowing what you need and special ordering it.

Also included will be special spring perches that will allow you to use whatever spring rate works best for you and set the ride ht. from fully slammed to SUV ht., ie; really tall.

He's been through many many sets of racing springs and has done extensive R&D finding the optimal spring rates front & rear for max performance; not to mention that it makes ride height [thus also weight balance] adjustability completly independent from the spring lengths, with infinitely greater adjustability then shims. [just like having coil-overs]

Rear camber arms to set the rear tires at the best angle for traction.

You'll find dozens and dozens of people on this board running them who'll throw high accolades his way about them. Sorry if you already know.

Also included would be front and rear swaybar bushings.

Much harder & durable material to remove suspension work from being done in the bushings and keeping it to the springs & shocks to handle.

Also very slick rod ends. These things are very kewl, made of a teflon contact surface bonded to a kevlar backing for durability.

[speedybenz]

Steve,

Thanks for the nice comments. It was a pleasure to take a nice drive through the foothills at a pretty good pace and not have the passenger frozen to the seat in terror.

I guess we should have taken a longer drive!

It was great to meet you and I look forward to working on your suspension setup.

Talk to you soon. I have a call into Penske right now.

Jeff

[714guy]

man sounded like you had find, Jeff next time i am up in the bay, hopefully i can meet up with you for the same experience.

[JDoggery]

sounds like you guys had a good time... so jeff, when do i get a ride in the best handling C43 in the world, hehe...

[speedybenz]

Yes,

When you guys are around my neck of the woods we can get together and go for a spin.

The next few weeks are not good as the front fenders are being widened to fit 9.5" wide wheels and 275mm tires.

Jeff

[c280nz]

Jeff do you have a picture of you "coil over" style adjustable spring mounts/perches?
and those a nice wide tires, what type of tires do you run? road legal semi slicks?
cheers

[Renn 208]

Originally posted by c280nz
Jeff do you have a picture of you "coil over" style adjustable spring mounts/perches?
and those a nice wide tires, what type of tires do you run? road legal semi slicks?
cheers

[c280nz]

Oh yea, looks very nice.
I had presumed that was the way they would be done.
And i like the remote reservoir adjustable front shocks

[c55m8o]

Originally posted by c280nz
And i like the remote reservoir adjustable front shocks

...rears too.

[cee28o]

man after reading this i have been drooling all over my keyboard. i was wondering if there is a "complete speedybnz" kit for a pre97 - c280 cuz i would love to have one setup in my car. i've been to the speedybnz site but all the products i see are their rear camber arms. any info/help is greatly appreciated. ~thanks

[c280nz]

I think u will find a nice long orderly que for all the stuff he produces > from what ive read the shocks are the real goods

are those spring mounts adjustable from the top with a socket set or anything, cos that would be trick!
By the looks of things the springs need to be removed/loosened for adjustment? as the threaded spring ring looks hidden in the spring cup < if that all makes sence

[c55m8o]

Originally posted by cee28o
man after reading this i have been drooling all over my keyboard. i was wondering if there is a "complete speedybnz" kit for a pre97 - c280 cuz i would love to have one setup in my car. i've been to the speedybnz site but all the products i see are their rear camber arms. any info/help is greatly appreciated. ~thanks

Ya ; totally one-off kit; per serious order only. Realize tho, ya gotta pay ta play. dunno if you realize the costs.

He offered it to Ashkan and had made mention other times ; but I bit 1st. Flew across the country to check it out and said "gotta have it". However, he's had =incredible= trouble getting his contact/buddy to source the customized Penske shocks he thought he could get w/o a problem. I've been waiting, I guess it's been 6 months now. I don't know if Jeff's going to try this again given that difficulty he's been put in by his "Penske guy".

Re: pre97, perhaps speedybenz or some others could answer if the suspension of the pre-97 is the same or not; sorry, I can't. Gotta hope someone else answers.

[c55m8o]

Originally posted by c280nz
are those spring mounts adjustable from the top with a socket set or anything, cos that would be trick!

yes, from the bottom actually. .... didn't you read above:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also included will be special spring perches that will allow you to use whatever spring rate works best for you and set the ride ht. from fully slammed to SUV ht., ie; really tall.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He's been through many many sets of racing springs and has done extensive R&D finding the optimal spring rates front & rear for max performance; not to mention that it makes ride height [thus also weight balance] adjustability completly independent from the spring lengths, with infinitely greater adjustability then shims. [just like having coil-overs]

[c280nz]

Yea i read that
What i was meaning by my post is can it be adjusted without taking them out of the car?
But i guess that means yes, it can be adjusted while still in the car from the bottom
sorry my mis-understanding

How much testing have you done speedy benz? with different models/weights etc or is it mainly work on a c43?
cos i beleive what is optimum in ur light weight c43, may be alot different from a c280 standard weight etc like um like *cee280* was asking i think that was his name, well thats for spring rates/ and shock settings anyway.

I am in no way doubting u i am just curious to the time spent in researching testing etc.

[Renn 208]

Originally posted by c280nz

How much testing have you done speedy benz? with different models/weights etc or is it mainly work on a c43

Actually Jeff's been "testing" for something like close to 3 years now... beginning first with a 1999 C280, and now on the C43.

He has a rather robust proving ground right in his backyard, and has taken the car to the track on multiple occasions now.

I think the key offering of Jeff's suspension components is that they are far more adjustable than anything else available. Therefore, an ideal setup can be found for any car it's fitted to. The springs are standard dimension race springs that are available in a whole spectrum of rates, and can be swapped out far more easily than stock springs, and I believe at a lower cost than purpose-built springs.

The shocks too, are adjustable for compression, rebound, and the valving can be adjusted for a number of different curves.

Sounds great eh? Well, the thing is that this kind of setup will require effort and work on your part to get it right. It's kind of like having a Canon 1-D Mk2 or...say a full on race car- Lots of buttons to play with. You have to put in work to get the most out of it. And as a precursor, driver skill becomes a limiting factor to how far you can develop the setup for your use.

On the practical side, the paradox of Jeff's system is that it is completely usable on the street. You always read in magazines about how "the car's great on the track, but I take it out to get a carton of milk, and my kidneys fall off" Oddly enough, the system is definitely comfortable for you wife or girlfriend to go out shopping and not come home screaming at you.

All it take is a couple of minutes to crank up the perches and raise car a few inches. Short of a remotely controlled McPherson strut coil over, there isn't a setup with that kind of ease-of-use.

In any case, the point i'm trying to get across is that this is not just an "off the shelf, buy it and forget it" kind of solution. It's one that asks as much of the driver as the driver asks of it.

Get to know your own car and address it's specific needs. Talk to Jeff about your observations on your car, and I'm sure he'd at least steer you in the right direction....and for the most part I don't think it means having to go to 800lbs/in. springs

[sig425]

is he even around anymore? I have been emailing him to get a set of camber arms for a couple of weeks with no reponse

[Renn 208]

Originally posted by sig425
is he even around anymore? I have been emailing him to get a set of camber arms for a couple of weeks with no reponse

I'll see if I can get a hold of him...

[speedybenz]

I am around. And I am well stocked on Camber Arms right now, so email me at speedyafm2@aol.com.

Yes the ride hts can be adjusted using a 19mm socket wrench from below the control arms. Takes 5 mins max. Adjusting the shock settings takes about 5mins also. And you can use any rate spring you want as the perches use 2.5" diameter race springs.

I might be willing to try this again but I will never use the same person at Penske to build the shocks. He knows his stuff and works on the NASCAR curcuit, but way to busy.

Steve, The shocks are done except for the rear shocks that should have the Covette type post top like our AMG shocks but the front shocks have the right top and the rear shocks can run on the car the way they are with the adaptors I made up. And when the other tops are in our hands any competent suspension shop can do the work and I will give you the name of some shops in your area.

All the other stuff is done, the spring perches, camber arms, sway bar bushings, etc. I will buy the springs this week.

Thanks,

Jeff

[c55m8o]

Woa...! Oh, I didn't realize you added to the post from the first time I read it. That's great news. The car really needs it too with all this added torque. Not meant as a joke. With all the plow and loss of traction I've been experiencing now that I'm comfortable with the car and pressing its new limits (granted I oh so hate these AVS ES100 tires that came with these Kinesis rims I bought) , I've come to realize, not only was the stock suspension not made for the added weight up front or dramatic increase in midrange thrust when coming out of a turn, when you add it into the mix, it just can't cope.

I'm sure typical upgraded suspension would go a long way in alleviating most of that ; as Carl doesn't seem to have the complaint I have. But I think the adjustability of your suspension is just what the dr. ordered!

Plus, I'm really keen on getting the suspension and LSD in before the October 8 Northeast MB meet @ MB headquarters.

...now I just need to find out if the stock ECU will operate w/o a signal from the auto tranni, and my journey to the dark-side will be complete (i.e. manual tranni in a hi-power Mercedes )

You'll have to send me an e-mail with the remainder of the cost I need to send you ; or gimme another call. I know we've been playing phone tag. I'll try you Sunday tho.

Thanx much,
-steve

[speedybenz]

Steve,

Even better news. I ubderstand the Corvettestyle caps are in and will be installed this Monday. So that will complete the shocks the way they should be. Thank God.

Talk to you Sunday.

Jeff