birth of another C55

[c280nz]

Originally posted by 98c43amg
For reference ... Doing a search on this board (this board is incredible) I learned that the C43 uses something like 24 - 26 lb. injectors ... so 65 lb. injectors are a mega step-up over that.

Sorry, I can't say. I have to do a patent search and discuss with an attorney specializing in this field. I just don't want to chance it in such an open forum.

yea, i have no idea even how big 24-26lb injectors are,
but remember u have 8 and he will only have 6 injectors.

it must be quite a unique sc idea then if ur going that hard out, just cant imagine another improvement that could be made to it :-? when u finially sort out all that legal stuff and its registered to u do share.

[knvs]

man all this talk of swaps has me really itching to do it. I've contacted "Norman" (I don't know if its the same Norman everyone is talking about) and he has a E55 engine with about 35k on it. Clean engine, just a strait swap. So there may be another C55 on the WEST COAST!!!

I was reading that the two C55 conversions feel different? One o the cars feels faster than the other? What are teh other mods that have been done to the cars to make a difference in feel? I'm sorry if I missed them earlier in the post.

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by knvs
man all this talk of swaps has me really itching to do it. I've contacted "Norman" (I don't know if its the same Norman everyone is talking about) and he has a E55 engine with about 35k on it. Clean engine, just a strait swap. So there may be another C55 on the WEST COAST!!!

I was reading that the two C55 conversions feel different? One o the cars feels faster than the other? What are teh other mods that have been done to the cars to make a difference in feel? I'm sorry if I missed them earlier in the post.

At this point both cars should feel almost identical.Months ago I had
M AF issues so when I replaced it the car woke the hell up and posted 293 whp.It should be higer now.


Yep and Steve is right some asshole wrecked my car and it's in the body shop now.It's a short but long story.

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by knvs
man all this talk of swaps has me really itching to do it. I've contacted "Norman" (I don't know if its the same Norman everyone is talking about) and he has a E55 engine with about 35k on it. Clean engine, just a strait swap. So there may be another C55 on the WEST COAST!!!

...are the wheels in motion?

[coolcarlskic43]

Nah!!! West coast guys have the money! But they won't spend the money! LOL!

[knvs]

Originally posted by 98c43amg
...are the wheels in motion?

yeah they are . Just talking about loose ends and what not, and checking out another c55 conversion. What did u guys do with the old engines? I don't have anywhere to store it and im talking with the guys who are doing the swap if they could give me a discount if I let them keep the old engine.

I'll be going on vacation soon, so it might not happen til july august tho.

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by knvs
yeah they are . Just talking about loose ends and what not, and checking out another c55 conversion. What did u guys do with the old engines? I don't have anywhere to store it and im talking with the guys who are doing the swap if they could give me a discount if I let them keep the old engine.

egggcellent...

Both Carl and I were able to leave them at the installer's house ... he's good enough to let us leave them there until we sell them. He might actually have a buyer for me.

Best of luck with it. I'm sure I'll be exchanging posts on a thread of yours like this...

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by JonC43
Those are incredible pix. I was always wondering what the internals looked like. I owe you for the education.

Jon, dunno if you'll check this thread again, but full-res pix are now up on the sight. Just click the link @ the bottom of the pic to load it.

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by 714guy
Can you Ask Jeff (MB tech) where he got the Exhuast manifold flanges for his turbo manifold?? Do you have any more pictures of his Single Turbo manifold??

714guy, as mentioned above, full-res versions of the pix are up, where in one or two, you can get a better view of the integrated flanged & manifold.

[98c43amg]

Originally posted by c280nz
it must be quite a unique sc idea then if ur going that hard out, just cant imagine another improvement that could be made to it :-? when u finially sort out all that legal stuff and its registered to u do share.

update. I called a Paxton dealer today. He recommended I call Paxton directly. Worried about opening my komono tho; not ready to ask them to sign a non-disclosure agreement yet.

BTW, do any reading this recommend any other Centrifical Supercharger manufacturer over Paxton?

[98c43amg]

OK, finally fixed the computer so it saw the scanner. I'm a firm believer in the real @ the wheels numbers ... none of this interpreted crap faking some overly generous @ the crank figure. So here's the @ the wheel graphs.

Please ignore the peak HP and torque figures. The shifting, torque converter, (and ignition timing pullback/alteration?) before and during the shift makes that erroneous.
- Peak torque is about 325 ft-lb.
- Peak HP is just under 300hp.
(both @ the wheel... I live near sea level, pressure 29.9in.Hg, vapore pressure 0.55 in.Hg, Intake Air Temp 88.1 degrees, Correction Factor 1.03 STD ... so there wasn't too much correction applied to equate the values to the "standard day".)
- A/F was pretty flat @ 12.5. That magnitude of the peak on the 2 - 3 shift is an aberation due to the bung in the exhast pipe having about a 1/2 second delay to changes. There's a blip, but not that bad.

Very disappointed with how low torque goes at redline. ...Carl, I bet you now agree about me giving up some of my low end torque to gain some high end torque by doing the exhast and headers...

Where the graphs cross is 5252 rpm.

I'm not too thrilled with where it was run.
- The guy doing it didn't want to spend some time getting me some runs from the mid 3K rpm and up in fourth .... needed finesse.
- You'll note no torque for 1st is even shown because the tires were slipping.
- The composite graphs (not scanned and posted) I have are from only 4.6K and up ... I hate that!
- Those graphs (again, not scanned and posted) have power scale from 0 to 350 on the left, and scale for torque of 0 to 400 on the right, so the graphs don't cross @ 5252 like they're supposed to. (in this dyno graph above, it does)

[coolcarlskic43]

Steve ,300 whp and 325ft-lbs of TQ is Damn great man!

[ledrocnoc]

(Newbie here...)

If you are talking about Norman's N1 Concepts C43 to C55 conversion, he actually is in Northern California.

I went and looked at the car and the conversion is great... great power, drives pretty good.

Unfortunately, the car "curb appeal" is way low: broken bits inside, scrached rims, car needs thorough detailing, relatively high mileage, some squeaks and rattles and it has had a paint job on one side (not obvious, but anyone with a good eye and a little bit of experience will see it).

I don't know how much Norman put in it total, and he might be able to get even on it, but it most likely a good marketing tool for it as he's already done another conversion and might get more business doing either C43 -> C55 and / or C36 -> C43 (with the C43 motors leftover) conversions.

BTW, I just picked up a 1998 C43 with 40k mile (black on black) last week (So Cal car � 1 owner - $17k) and I am thinking about doing either a HPS conversion or an E55 engine swap.

DC

[c55m8o]

ledrocnoc, welcome to the club. Congrats....Best of luck with the C43. HPS Gen II does indeed look nice for the price.

thanx for chiming in about Norm's C55; that condition you describer then certainly explains the mystery to me about why he kept having to lower his price.

[knvs]

norm's car isn't in the greatest of condition, but if he had it detailed and fixed a few things here and there he would definetly get what he is asking for. When I test drove his car before my swap I was kinda surprised his car wasn't as clean as I would have imagine. Norm's a busy guy. I wish him the best of luck

[ledrocnoc]

Hey knvs,

Was that your black C43 at Norman's waiting for the conversion? If it was yours great looking one.

How do you like the car with the new engine? I am still debating an HPS vs. E55 engine swap...

DC

[knvs]

Originally posted by ledrocnoc
Hey knvs,

Was that your black C43 at Norman's waiting for the conversion? If it was yours great looking one.

How do you like the car with the new engine? I am still debating an HPS vs. E55 engine swap...

DC

Was it about 2 weeks ago? If it was, then it was me! I totally love the swap! and I'd recommend it. there is so much more power and excitement. I say do the swap first and then if you need more power then go hps supercharger

[ledrocnoc]

Yeah... although it can be done either way (i.e. E55 then HPS later or HPS then E55 later as the HPS will fit both engines).

I have a line on a HPS for $4,000, but I would have to self install. How much did Norman charge you for the swap?

DC

[c55m8o]

edit: (deleted the 1st response; sorry, I didn't realize the add'l responses above and context of the reply)

edit: is that a new GenII for $4K or the used/old GenI one being sold on mbworld.org (that people there are claiming is a stolen unit)?

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by c55m8o
edit: (deleted the 1st response; sorry, I didn't realize the add'l responses above and context of the reply)

edit: is that a new GenII for $4K or the used/old GenI one being sold on mbworld.org (that people there are claiming is a stolen unit)?

OOOoooooooooo

[c55m8o]

Originally posted by coolcarlskic43
OOOoooooooooo

[click me]

[jlomon]

I've been reading this thread with big dreams of doing something similar to my C280, maybe picking up an orphaned 4.3 V8 from someone who steps up to the 5.4. But I have a question that nobody seems to have addressed. What do you do about insurance?

With a substantial mod like that, you'd have to inform your carrier or else risk being denied coverage in the event of a claim. However, there is no official data for a C55, so it presents a problem for an insurer to decide what the risk is compared to a C43. Clearly there is a performance difference between the two, or else you wouldn't have invested your time and money in the conversion.

Insurance laws are going to be different everywhere. On a whim I called my broker yesterday and asked how my carrier would react if I did the same thing, converting a C43 to a C55. His response? My insurance company would decline coverage and I would have to go into the high-risk pool in order to seek a company that will cover me.

I'm curious how others have dealt with this.

[coolcarlskic43]

Originally posted by jlomon
I've been reading this thread with big dreams of doing something similar to my C280, maybe picking up an orphaned 4.3 V8 from someone who steps up to the 5.4. But I have a question that nobody seems to have addressed. What do you do about insurance?

With a substantial mod like that, you'd have to inform your carrier or else risk being denied coverage in the event of a claim. However, there is no official data for a C55, so it presents a problem for an insurer to decide what the risk is compared to a C43. Clearly there is a performance difference between the two, or else you wouldn't have invested your time and money in the conversion.

Insurance laws are going to be different everywhere. On a whim I called my broker yesterday and asked how my carrier would react if I did the same thing, converting a C43 to a C55. His response? My insurance company would decline coverage and I would have to go into the high-risk pool in order to seek a company that will cover me.

I'm curious how others have dealt with this.

My friend,how would the insurance company even know I installed a 5.5L motor in my car? It's a M113 engine just like the 4.3L motor.There's no issue at all.I have full covrage on my C43/55.

[jlomon]

I hadn't considered the fact that both are M113's that would look the same under the hood, so this would be a mod that they'd never find out about, even if (God forbid) you were to write the car off and the adjustor comes out to inspect it. Unless you were a Mercedes mechanic, who could tell the difference.

In my case, since I'd be taking out an M104 and replacing it with an M113, which wasn't available in my year of production in a W202, I'd be screwed. I'd imagine most adjustors could tell the difference between a V8 and an inline 6. Its probably easier to just look for a 3.6 M104 from an AMG car.

[c55m8o]

Originally posted by jlomon
I hadn't considered the fact that both are M113's that would look the same under the hood, so this would be a mod that they'd never find out about, even if (God forbid) you were to write the car off and the adjustor comes out to inspect it. Unless you were a Mercedes mechanic, who could tell the difference.

In my case, since I'd be taking out an M104 and replacing it with an M113, which wasn't available in my year of production in a W202, I'd be screwed. I'd imagine most adjustors could tell the difference between a V8 and an inline 6. Its probably easier to just look for a 3.6 M104 from an AMG car.

I agree, it's probably easier installing the 3.6L AMG motor.... however regarding coverage, don't forget, you're "creating" a C43 from the C280; not such a big deal ... C43's exist today from the factory as just that, and have standard coverage. As long as you follow the engineering design MB/AMG employed when dropping the 4.3L motor in your engine bay, why would there be anything in the picture different the buying a C43 straight-up and getting standard coverage? It's not like you're dropping a racing Hemi crate engine in the bay... (like me, wondering if I can take my 4.3L engine and drop it in my '97 Jeep Wrangler's engine bay... ...unless you'd like to buy it for $2500? ; long-block w/63K miles [long block contains no ancillary externals, wiring harness, fuel rail, etc.] )