Which shock?

[kowalski]

Thanks for the info Vetruck.

I forgot, are Vogtland springs linear or progressive?
They should work fine with Koni yellows?

[Vetruck]

Thanks for the info Vetruck.

I forgot, are Vogtland springs linear or progressive?
They should work fine with Koni yellows?

It all depends on what ride vs handling you are looking for.
I 've done alot of research on what is availiable for W202's

Lets start with spring basic designs, there are 3 types:
a) Linear spring rates- the rate at one inch compression remains constant. If it is 800lbs @ 1" compressed height, then it will be 1600 lbs @ 2" compressed height.
b) Progressive rate- this is where the coil windings start out at a shallow ramp and progress into a steeper angle aseach wind of the coil loops towards the top. The premise of this spring is to make the rate increase as the spring compresses. The bottom shallow wind will coilbind the further up it compresses and it "gradually" gets into a firmer rate
c) Dual rate /or Compound Springs. They have one section of shallow angle winds, then sharply go into the upper secton of steeper (stiffer rate) winds. There is a bump there you will feel if the weight is not correct.

Lets lok at the manufactureres for these cars

H&R- front progressive/rear progressive
Vogtland- front dual rate/ rear dual rate
B & G- ?/? I think they are dual rates I can not confirm either
Koni- front linear/rear prgressive? I can not confirm rears
Eibach prokit- front linear/rear progressive

Here's the problem alot of you are facing. You are putting much larger and heavier wheels onto the car than the engineers designed. Then, you are lowering the car so as to limit the suspension travel- most of you are doing so for looks and need to keep the heavy wheel rom flying upward and impacting the tire against the fender. There is not alot of honestly, AND alot of naiveness floating around car forums as to "my ride suck with this, or my ride is great with that, or too bumpy, or too harsh, etc etc.

You want light weight period for good ride quality. What happens with dual rate springs is they work ok when suited to a properly weighted car with stock wheel assemblies a decent performance shock- but put a heavier wheel onto there and start hitting bumps and the softer rate section of the spring rapidly hits coilbond becuase the damper can not support slowing the heavier wheel motion. Alot of these setups are now boucing off the bumpstops to rely on not grounding against the fender. Next combine this with someone who puts a heavy speakerbox in the car, or 3 friends, and half their bedroom of clothes etc and then do not understand why the car drives like crap because it can not hold the weight- they then put a Koni yellow onto it thinking they are going to better control the chassis and max out the sttings. The spring already is soft and jacks down on each bump because the high rebound damper does not release it fast enough- you then further stress the front spring rate under braking and cornering with all the friends in the car and the speaker box going and the outside front wheel gets overloaded onto the stiffer sectionof that srping rate which is fine in rate, but the problem now is the rate came in TOO LOW of a ride height and you are jacked down and bumping off the bumpstops without the suspension releasing fast enough either- its just a mess- I see this kind of stuff all the time and people have no idea why their car rides so terrible- they blame it on the shocks being harsh and go back to another softer brand thinking its actually firmer but is not holding the suspension down in a bad zone.

To answer the question of Koni's and Vogtlands? yes if you use the correct spring pads to keep the travel off the bumpstops, and you leet the rebound adjustment on the lower side so as to be able to utilize the softer extended section of the spring dual rate design.

Linear fronts are great, but in the case of Eibach, I know for a fact they use much higher tan stock spring rates- you combine that with a higher compression rate Koni Yellow and the ride becomes much firmer up front, especially under brake 7corner entrance load. You have to do this without adding a larger swaybar up front. Otherwise going to this setup and a Bilstien with is slightly less comprssion valved, you may need a little larger front swaybar to get the same handling but will have a worst ride quality with the larger bar. The Eibach and Bilstein with the stock front bar will probabably give a great straightline drive, but you will still get roll motion into the corner. I value cornering ability of a car.-why?- cornering abilty translate into vehicle safety in emergency situations- same goes for braking.

The best type of spring up front is a linear spring. The correct rate linear spring matched to the shock valving. As I stated in a post prior, you slightly up the spring rate? you had better then slightly decrease the bump rate of the shock becuae they go hand in hand- the car's weight certainly is not changing so if you put a firmer rate spring on a car and leave the shock compression dampering alone, the car's effective comprssion rate in ride quality will harshen. Koni matches a lowered performance spring set with its dampers for a reason, its a balanced set. Koni is know for performance

Bilstein is now doing package deals with shocks and spring packages, but Bilsteins are still not adustable for that weekend desire for a spirited canyon run or autox event. Bilstein lack the higher rebound control rate to keep a car chasiss weight restrained from rolling into a fast corner abuptly like Koni adjustment can.

It appears that the H&R progressive rate springs are better matched to Bilstein compression valing for ride comfort. Again I am going off of questionable reviews of people in forums who may have massive swaybars, massive speakerboxes and heavy after market wheels. Alot of them think the Koni's matched with H&R are harsh- but I question what pads are they using so where is their effective suspension travel distance range? Also are they carrying heavier loads and are already deep into the progressive rate range at static ride height? We never know.

I will give a story about a car I had where I have ALOT, and I mean ALLLOTTT of experience with 100's of other cars just like it. It was an 87 Camaro I built. I know those cars like the back of my hand and to this day still help out various clubs with first hand work and alignemtn settings on their cars. I set them for the street, I set them for the track, I do it all for them on their budget.

With that said, I had this Camaro with a very light enigine in it which weight about 200lbs less on the nose that most others. I also ran very stiff linear springs up front(stock was 550 range, I ran 825's) which was a heavy rate even for the heavier stock engine guys. I also ran the very aggressive vlaved Koni yellows. My car rode beautifully and to this date has still recorded lateral g # that nobody else can touch (1.07gs on 220 tw street tires that were on 8" factory IROC wheels and 245-50-16 tires) Everyone else complianed most of the time their cars rode like crap with Konis- even with lower rates and heavier front chassis weight. They had heavy wheels, they had poor suspension geometry (this gets technical), and alot of times were bouncing off the bumpstops and overdampered with crappy tire sidewall srping rates. Yes- a tire quality makes all the difference too. Everything has to be taylored to work. By just changing a set of tires from lets say Goodyear to BFG I would have to retaylor my settings.

Its not all about what you buy, but more importantly how to set it and match it. Tires, wheels, shocks, springs, and suspension ride height all come into play and need to be married together. Every car on this board is different based on personal choices and habits.