New here, a couple minor issues with 99 C43

[AMG KC]

Hi all, im new here, long time W202 owner/driver from the east coast of Australia.

Just moved up from the 95 C180 Esprit ive had for over ten extremely trouble free years and 353,700klms with hardly a cent spent. Still got the car, will likely keep it.

Had my 99 C43 for abit over two weeks now, just rolled over 110,000klms yesterday, exceptional condition. The oil light came on about a week after i got it telling me to add 2.0lts, dip stick says slightly over full ( it covers the letters "max" on the dipstick ) Got another level sensor coming, no big deal at all.

The minor issue im having is only when cold, id say prior to entering closed loop operation, but not certain on that. Never happens warmed up.

If i put the boot in, itll go 'ok' til about 3,200-4,000rpm, then all of a sudden pull strong as an ox. When warmed up, itll pull strong the whole way, no issue.

It doesnt seem to be running rough, but this car is so bloody quiet its hard to say for sure. It was much worse when i first got the car, over the course of a week it improved a fair bit, but has no leveled off.

I have had the trans serviced and it was like new, works perfectly. I also did the reset on it and that improved its shift points, but that isnt the issue here.

If i start the car up and allow it to run for 3-5 minutes before i drive, all actually seems fine.

Im interested to know what people think could be the cause of this only when cold issue.

Apart from this, the car is everything i dreamed it would be, and its still a W202 ;)

[Sulaco]

Hmm. Neither of mine do that. But as a rule of thumb on an older car with more than 300 hp and a transmission that costs a fortune to rebuild, I never give much throttle below 40 Celsius on the temp gauge. My transmissions are fine, and I need them to stay that way!

But that's not answering your question at all. Sorry. Is it delivering any trouble codes? Could be a stored code with no check engine light.

[Pagz]

Welcome to the forum, I dont see to many C43's for sale over there with low km's!.

Must be Low grade Ausi fuel? ;)

It's not a common fault I've seen, as Sulaco mentioned, get the codes read theres possibly a stored code with no check light.

Could be MAF or o2 sensor related. Or maybe the butterfly's in your manifold are not closing(long shot, but seeing as its got low K's and been sitting alot the oil inside might have turned to glue - I've heard this happens with M113's sitting in parts yards)

Regards,

[W202FTW]

Hi all, im new here, long time W202 owner/driver from the east coast of Australia.

Just moved up from the 95 C180 Esprit ive had for over ten extremely trouble free years and 353,700klms with hardly a cent spent. Still got the car, will likely keep it.

Had my 99 C43 for abit over two weeks now, just rolled over 110,000klms yesterday, exceptional condition. The oil light came on about a week after i got it telling me to add 2.0lts, dip stick says slightly over full ( it covers the letters "max" on the dipstick ) Got another level sensor coming, no big deal at all.

The minor issue im having is only when cold, id say prior to entering closed loop operation, but not certain on that. Never happens warmed up.

If i put the boot in, itll go 'ok' til about 3,200-4,000rpm, then all of a sudden pull strong as an ox. When warmed up, itll pull strong the whole way, no issue.

It doesnt seem to be running rough, but this car is so bloody quiet its hard to say for sure. It was much worse when i first got the car, over the course of a week it improved a fair bit, but has no leveled off.

I have had the trans serviced and it was like new, works perfectly. I also did the reset on it and that improved its shift points, but that isnt the issue here.

If i start the car up and allow it to run for 3-5 minutes before i drive, all actually seems fine.

Im interested to know what people think could be the cause of this only when cold issue.

Apart from this, the car is everything i dreamed it would be, and its still a W202 ;)


I very recently had an issue driving my C230K on a cold start - noted that the supercharger (acting as an air pump) was louder than usual. I took it on the road [note, no check engine light] immediately and noted that the transmission hesitated when shifting between 1st and 2nd (in sport mode) and then 2nd to 3rd (in regular driving and in winter mode). After warming up it drove fine. Took it to work and spent a very long late night diagnosing the issue: Found the ECU sending a load signal too high to the transmission and while also causing the engine to run lean during cold starts.

Ordered a remanufactured ECU for $300 (including sending my core in), replaced the ECU and my cold start problems went away :)

On a side note, my transmission is still leaking a decent amount of fluid from the rear main seal and the pilot bushing.

Also, the instrument cluster will illuminate the oil-lamp if there is both low AND excessive oil levels. Non-combustible substances will collect on the bottom of the oil pan and cause the oil level to rise [Mercedes TSB DDAF18 40-U-8042A].

[AMG KC]

Hi everyone, thanks for your replies. Sorry i havent got alot of time at the moment so thisll have to be real quick til later ;)

Firstly thanks for the welcomes :)

Its absolutely not transmission related.

There were no codes a week ago when it was checked out and had transmission serviced.

Fuel used is 98 RON BP premium unleaded.

This time of year in Australia, itll be well over 40°c after 2 or 3 minutes of running. Very warm weather here lately ;)

Idles perfectly fine right from cold. Foot all the way down or just part way down, issue is the same, obviously the pickup is alot more savage when it hits if youre at WOT.

Oil light tells me to add two litres of oil, the cluster in the 230 is different according to the manual. But thats ok, its sorted, got new part coming to swap out.

Pagz, you mension butterflies inside the manifold, what do they do and where are they?

Is there a way to check the DTCs without a computer or is there something i can get for a laptop?

Thanks again everyone :)

[AMG KC]

Welcome to the forum, I dont see to many C43's for sale over there with low km's!.

Must be Low grade Ausi fuel? ;)

It's not a common fault I've seen, as Sulaco mentioned, get the codes read theres possibly a stored code with no check light.

Could be MAF or o2 sensor related. Or maybe the butterfly's in your manifold are not closing(long shot, but seeing as its got low K's and been sitting alot the oil inside might have turned to glue - I've heard this happens with M113's sitting in parts yards)

Regards,
My first thoughts were possibly the MAF causing a minor issue when cold until the O2 sensors come into play and correct it, but id expect they would give a more permanant correction than something that re-occurs every start.

I used to do alot with C4 Corvettes tuning and drivability wise, mostly 94-95 but others as well. I dont have any info on the operational parameters of the Mercedes engine management system though, so i dont know under what conditions they go into closed loop, or if the O2s get the most absolute say in fuel management.

The fact itll run flawless when warmed up leads me to think the O2s should be fine, but i dont know enough to be certain.

Its got full books with every service, but there is work completed that was NOT listed in the book.

[98Benzo]

Welcome! I cant really help you with your problem but would like to see some pics of your car in the members gallery some time. All the best with your car issue.

[AMG KC]

Welcome! I cant really help you with your problem but would like to see some pics of your car in the members gallery some time. All the best with your car issue.

Hey no problem :) I will get around to that soon!

Ive just got home from work, so after the car cools down i will try to get the air filter box off and look at that MAF and throttle plate.

Ive never seen how the filter comes off but looks like the whole box clips in place??

Pagz, i see some sort of vacuum operated device at the front of the intake manifold, is this some relation to the butterflies you spoke of? Is this EGR? If that was open when cold it could be the cause...

[AMG KC]

Under the AMG cover is an item missing from my engine compared to pics ive seen. There are a few unused plugs there. What is missing and is it a USA only piece of emissions equipment not fitted to my Australian model?

[AMG KC]

This here:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a185/Casethecorvetteman/image_zpsaddb329c.jpg

[AMG KC]

Just another quick update, i pulled the MAF out and pulled it apart to clean it, it was not really the cleanest ive seen. Put the car all back together and it seems to still run identical, which i sort of expected it would.

Another thing i noticed when sitting still, slight throttle applied, the engine RPM will go up and down abit, where i expect it should sit steady.

[Sulaco]

That would be the vacuum pump I believe. I've never seen one missing that piece! Can't imagine why the aussie model would not have it!

[AMG KC]

Hmmm, well mine must still have it somewhere, cause the dash vents all work and change position without the engine running!! So do the headlight adjustments!! :)

My 95 C180 wont change anything vacuum related without the engine running, except the central locking, but the vacuum pump for that burned its motor out so i removed it, rebuilt it with a new motor, which was chinese and lasted two weeks. So i removed it again, lock the fuel door from inside the boot, lock the boot with the key, then dont bother locking the doors. That is the ONLY thing that has ever stopped working in that car, the engine harness has alot of silicone on it ( for obvious reasons im sure youll all know well ), but it still runs perfect ;)

[Sulaco]

That's a very curious situation you have going on there. Where would they relocate it and why? There's an auxiliary pump in the trunk in the same spot as your C180 that should handle all battery operated vac operations. This one is the main pump that runs with the engine, I believe. Or I'm completely wrong..??

It's the air pump indeed.

Here's a thread with someone having their's rebuilt:
http://mbworld.org/forums/c32-amg-c55-amg-w203/463347-secondary-air-pump-location.html

And it's the SECONDARY. The one in the trunk is primary. I had them backwards.

By the way, you can scan for trouble codes at most parts stores for free if you just go in and ask them. If you have an android phone, you can buy an app in the app store for $5 called Torque and use a $20 bluetooth OBDII scanner to check/erase codes and much, much more (like real-time diagnostics, sensor monitors, etc).

[Pagz]

Guys,
Not all M112/M113 are fitted with air injection(so the space is ment to be empty in front of the intake manifold),the pump is used to inject fresh air into the exhaust to improve emissions on startup,mostly used in the American market.

None of the AU or NZ new C43's had the air pump(as well as the second set of o2's)

Regards,

[AMG KC]

By the way, you can scan for trouble codes at most parts stores for free if you just go in and ask them. If you have an android phone, you can buy an app in the app store for $5 called Torque and use a $20 bluetooth OBDII scanner to check/erase codes and much, much more (like real-time diagnostics, sensor monitors, etc).
No parts stores in Australia do that as far as i know, but i would certainly rather do it myself if possible. I had many years on the PCMs used in Corvettes as well as F and B body cars, its just a matter of getting everything i need for a real car i guess ;)

[AMG KC]

Guys,
Not all M112/M113 are fitted with air injection(so the space is ment to be empty in front of the intake manifold),the pump is used to inject fresh air into the exhaust to improve emissions on startup,mostly used in the American market.

None of the AU or NZ new C43's had the air pump(as well as the second set of o2's)

Regards,
Cheers mate, it certainly didnt appear as though something had been removed. I dont think ive ever seen any Australian car with air injection reaction systems fitted.

So what can you tell me about these butterflies Pagz?

If i was to disconnect the battery for a couple hours, is this going to be a potential inprovement if it forgets any bad habbits its learned or will it be of no use?

[Pagz]

KC,
The intake manifold is dual length ,butterflies are actuated by the diaphragm at the front of the manifold,from the solinoid you'll notice the small rubber line entering the lower front area of the manifold, this is not removable and is connected to a vacuum storage chamber/non-return valve that runs the length of the manifold. Often(and on the CLK55 I just got from Ausi) the rubber hose is brittle and perished and will fail at some stage, The manifold is expensive and a non-serviceable item,though some people find ways to pull it apart and repair it is not a simple task to make it as good as factory again.

You could actuate the butterflies by compressing the diaphragm by hand,If the change in power you experience is fairly extreme then I don't think this will be the problem, but worth a look anyway!

I don't think the battery disconnect will be of much use, it would be best to have all the stored codes read!.

Cheers!

[AMG KC]

Apparently no codes there at all when they looked abit over a week ago.

The change isnt what id call extreme, its just got nothing down low at all apart from quick snaps on the throttle, taking off from lights is where youll see what im refering to, revs build smooth but steady, then slow a little in their building around 3,200 before full power about 4,000.

What youre refering to could possibly be an issue.

What is the purpose of the dual length and under what situations does it change state?

[AMG KC]

No OBD2 socket on this car either apparently, only the round one under the bonnet on the left.

[kowalski]

Guys,
Not all M112/M113 are fitted with air injection(so the space is ment to be empty in front of the intake manifold),the pump is used to inject fresh air into the exhaust to improve emissions on startup,mostly used in the American market.

None of the AU or NZ new C43's had the air pump(as well as the second set of o2's)

Regards,

absolutely correct.
no euro C43's had the air pump fitted.
mine is the same as Pagz C43

no secondary o2 sensors either, rears are plugged on mine

[AMG KC]

Any check engine light on yours?

[Pagz]

KC,
Was the scan performed by a MB service garage?.

Yep no OBD2 either,we need the standard 38 pin for diagnostics.

Varying runner length is to improve cylinder filling , I cant find the exact RPM when they change over but they default to the open position(short runner high RPM state) when there is no vaccum, when the engine starts and vaccum is created they close to form the long runner suitable for low down torque. have you tried actuating them by hand?.

Cheers,,

[kowalski]

Any check engine light on yours?

euro cars never had the CEL warning display in speedo cluster, only US cars had this option.
wonder why MB never activated the CEL on euro cars?
without CEL you never know when o2 sensors and airmass sensor go bad

[AMG KC]

KC,
Was the scan performed by a MB service garage?.

Yep no OBD2 either,we need the standard 38 pin for diagnostics.

Varying runner length is to improve cylinder filling , I cant find the exact RPM when they change over but they default to the open position(short runner high RPM state) when there is no vaccum, when the engine starts and vaccum is created they close to form the long runner suitable for low down torque. have you tried actuating them by hand?.

Cheers,,

Certainly was mate yes, by a Mercedes Benz trained person no less!!

I havent had a chance yet because the engine was too hot to touch it there yesterday, i dont work til 6pm today so i will have a gander abit later in the day.

Is there an adaptor of sorts to connect a WiFi or bluetooth scan tool to our cars?

[AMG KC]

euro cars never had the CEL warning display in speedo cluster, only US cars had this option.
wonder why MB never activated the CEL on euro cars?
without CEL you never know when o2 sensors and airmass sensor go bad
Well it makes it quite difficult i guess, id imagine they did it to limit who can diagnose faults with the cars.

[RemoLexi]

On the US spec models we still have the OBD2 connector.

But in your case you need something MB specific with 38-pin.

I'm willing to bet your problem lies with etc adaptation, from all the type 6's I've had, they don't like cold. So cold thick oil = all sorts of funny stuff.

[AMG KC]

Youll have to tell me what youre refering to when you say "etc adaptation".

But as far as cold goes, its not been cold here for many months. 26°c was the over night low. This issue is not caused by cold weather.

The oil is Mobil 1 5w50, it wont be thick at 20°c plus. Its summer here in Australia, it doesnt even get cold in winter!! ;)

[RemoLexi]

The type 6 transmission is constantly adapting to driving manner. So grandpa driving = up shifting early on ect.

Resetting may help, or drive it hard for a week.

Though its not for sure, just a guess. I'm trying to picture what can be happening. It's almost like its running more on the rich side as well as running richer for a faster cold warm-up, I'm assuming euro spec do that as well to warm up cats fast as possible.

[AMG KC]

Ok, i see. I did post previously stating its clearly not a transmission issue, ive allready reset it, and that it improved shift points. I drive it pretty hard all the time!! Thats what i bought it for :lol:

I cant see how a transmission is going to cause engine anomolies ;)

There is no black soot coming out the back end, so im not sure if its going rich or just lacking torque to rev up quickly for another reason.

Cheers mate :)

[RemoLexi]

Apologize, yea you did state your transmission was in working order. That's just the first thought that came to my mind.

How severely slow @ cold take-off is it ? Say ... 15% slower then when warm ?

[AMG KC]

No appology required my friend ;) i appreciate your assistance.

Id say more around 35-50%, but it seems to run smooth.

Im out at the car now, just removed the cover, the butterflies move easily, started the car and expected they would change state, but no.

I would expect they should be pulled shut at idle?

[AMG KC]

Looking further, the hoses are perfectly good, sucking on the diaphram causes it to operate.

At idle, there is no vacuum beyond the electronic coil. If i rev up the engine the valve will change state, as in the diaphram pulls in.

[AMG KC]

Here is where it sits by default:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a185/Casethecorvetteman/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps24c0c945.jpg

[Pagz]

Sounds like the manifold is working correctly!

35-50% is a lot,with no codes its wanting to limit torque for some reason!

Hmm

[AMG KC]

No idea why really, id expect if it was worn plugs it would do it hot or cold.

Ive never seen any other car that wouldnt let me drive the ring off it straight from cold start!!

What seems most unusual about this is if i let the car sit and idle for just five minutes, no issue at all. It takes at least five minutes of driving to correct if i just go straight away.

[AMG KC]

Now although this car is f***en great and quite powerful, i can see myself wanting to grab a W210 E55 soon and swap the engines over!!

E55s here are much cheaper than C43s, but a low klms E55 isnt easy to find, where as most C43s here havent been much further than mine.

[kowalski]

Now although this car is f***en great and quite powerful, i can see myself wanting to grab a W210 E55 soon and swap the engines over!!

E55s here are much cheaper than C43s, but a low klms E55 isnt easy to find, where as most C43s here havent been much further than mine.

in australija are them w210 E55 AMG cars considered as rustbuckets?
in europe these cars are very rust sensitive.
worst car MB ever built!

where's your interior and exterior pictures of your car?

[Abbaso]

Certainly was mate yes, by a Mercedes Benz trained person no less!!

I havent had a chance yet because the engine was too hot to touch it there yesterday, i dont work til 6pm today so i will have a gander abit later in the day.

Is there an adaptor of sorts to connect a WiFi or bluetooth scan tool to our cars?
Yes there is though you would need to get the 38 pin to OBD2 and an ELM 327 blue tooth adapter. Its good for live data and stuff. I would suggest you get car soft 7.4 it's cheap and works very well for the entire body and Egs air con etc. Only problem is you would need a laptop with the old 9 pin native serial port.

[AMG KC]

in australija are them w210 E55 AMG cars considered as rustbuckets?
in europe these cars are very rust sensitive.
worst car MB ever built!

where's your interior and exterior pictures of your car?

Havent had a day off yet so i havent had time to post any.

Not as far as i know, never heard of the W210s having any issues at all apart from wiring on the older ones, but thats wasnt just the E that had that issue.

[AMG KC]

Yes there is though you would need to get the 38 pin to OBD2 and an ELM 327 blue tooth adapter. Its good for live data and stuff. I would suggest you get car soft 7.4 it's cheap and works very well for the entire body and Egs air con etc. Only problem is you would need a laptop with the old 9 pin native serial port.
Cheers mate, i dont think my old laptop has RS232 on it, id have to check it out. The older one i used to use for Corvettes is dead.

[kowalski]

Havent had a day off yet so i havent had time to post any.

Not as far as i know, never heard of the W210s having any issues at all apart from wiring on the older ones, but thats wasnt just the E that had that issue.

problems were electrical or rust issues
they got a little better after the facelift but still not perfect.

maybe w210 cars doesn't rust in Australia as the climate is a lot better down under?

[AMG KC]

No idea mate yeah, rust hasnt ever been an issue ive heard of with them here. Ive heard of the W210s rusting out around the tops of the front springs, but again, never heard of it here. My 95 C180 got vandalised about 5 years ago and i never got it fixed, there is still only very minor surface rust where they went through the paint. I dont know how the South African built cars here hold up, i did some repairs on a 98 C180 here a couple tears ago for someone at work after the service center they used broke the air intake at the rubber joiner and it was sucking air after the MAF, adding to that they used the wrong spark plugs... That particular car has had a few issues ive never ever seen on a German built version.

Just had a reasonably exciting drive home, this car pulls so well out of corners and just stays perfectly planted. The lack of an LSD was something that initially concerned me abit, but it probably helps abit of corner exits. The 255 Michelin Pilots on the rear probably help alot too. I must say the lack of an LSD isnt the issue i expected it would be at all.

[Sulaco]

I'm learning so much about Euro, Aussie, and African MB's from this thread.

Can't imagine why the w210 would have such rust issues up there, kowalski. I've never seen a 210 in the US with a spot of rust on it. My w202 acquired 238,000 miles driving between TN and Florida, the wettest part of the US, and has not one single spot of rust!

Anyway, I'm off topic. Any news on your cold-running issue?

[RemoLexi]

Damn up to 50% slower is a bit mind numbing. Getting good fuel pressure cold vs. hot?

[AMG KC]

Nah mate no news, and i wouldnt worry about going abit off topic, it doesnt bother me either way ;)

[AMG KC]

Damn up to 50% slower is a bit mind numbing. Getting good fuel pressure cold vs. hot?

Well id assume so cause once it hits 4,000rpm it goes as good as warmed up, so i cant see where that would be a concern. What makes it so difficult to figure is the fact it appears as though the egine is running quite smoothly, just not the usual power id expect in that rev range. Its easily noticed too.

Pics are posted in the gallery by the way ;)

[W202FTW]

Tons of rusty 210s up here in New England (the amount of road salt they use is pretty extreme).

[kowalski]

fold down the upper rubber seals on all 4 doors and you will probably find lots of cancer rot.
this is a hidden rust spot in european cold climate countries.
MB had warranty recalls on most cars which was affected by rot, they cutout panels replaced with new panels then repainted cars, after a few years many cars rusted again.
poor buildquality with the lack of rustcoating baths at the factory beacuse MB had to sink in money into a bleeding Chrysler company, factory bosses let MB brand detoriate and Herr Hitler and all the dead dictators turned a few rounds of disapointment in their graves knowing that MB reputation was not what it used to be anymore.


w210 has lots of hidden rustspots, when buying a w210 car needs a proper healthy checkout

[AMG KC]

Yeah id only be buying for the 55 engine, then reselling it again!!